Reclaiming Humanness with Maulik Parekh
angela_howard (00:01.538)
Hello?
How are you? It's great to meet you, I guess, on the podcast. I mean, we met a few minutes before, but how are you doing? Good, good. Well, hey, nice to meet you, Angela, as well, and good to be with you on this podcast. Thanks for the invitation. Yes, thank you so much for joining. We've quickly had about a 15-minute conversation, and I'm already excited to jump in because you're fascinating.
maulik_parekh (00:11.376)
Good, good. Well, hey, nice to meet you, Angela, as well, and good to be with you on this podcast. Thanks for the invitation.
angela_howard (00:32.336)
between organizations and leaders and people and capabilities, I think, is just a fantastic fit for this season, which is really all around disrupting the world of work. So let's start with an introduction. Please tell us who you are and what makes you human. That's usually a question I ask, I guess, if you want to tell us about your personal endeavors, but also your professional.
maulik_parekh (00:45.177)
Yes.
maulik_parekh (01:00.348)
sure if you ask my family they would say what makes me human is all my imperfections because that's what you know that
angela_howard (01:00.462)
sure if you ask my family they would say what makes me human is all my imperfections because that's what you know that's what brings us all to the core of who we are right as humans but a bit of my background as I was sharing with you earlier and I grew up in India
maulik_parekh (01:07.94)
That's what brings us all to the core of who we are, right, as humans. But a bit of my background, as I was sharing with you earlier, and I grew up in India, and then went to the US, spent 14 years there, did my master's in business administration, worked there for a couple of large companies out of Denver, Colorado. And then, as I mentioned to you earlier, I was sent on a three-month assignment to the Philippines, and my boss never told me that it was not...
angela_howard (01:19.094)
went to the US, spent 14 years there, did my masters in business administration, worked there for a couple of large companies out of Denver, Colorado. And then, as I mentioned to you earlier, I was sent on a three-month assignment to the Philippines. And my boss never told me that it was not really a three-month assignment. He was sending me here for life. So I've been living in the Philippines for the last 15 years, and I've been loving it.
maulik_parekh (01:38.014)
really a three-month assignment. He was sending me here for life. So I've been living in the Philippines for the last 15 years and I've been loving it. Just recently I ended my stint as the CEO of one of the largest BPO companies in the world. It's called Inspiro. We had close to 12,000 employees around the world and then I decided last March that I was going to take some time off, travel with
angela_howard (01:47.758)
Just recently, I ended my stint as the CEO of one of the largest BPO companies in the world. It's called Inspiro. We have close to 12,000 employees around the world. And then I decided last March that I was gonna take some time off, travel with my family, and do all the things that I always wanted to do. And then...
maulik_parekh (02:08.414)
do all the things that I always wanted to do. And then obviously what happened, you know, as they say, life is what happens when you have other plans. And that's exactly what happened to me, and I'm sure to you as well. We all got stuck during the lockdowns. And I said, hey, if I'm not going anywhere, then I'm gonna...
angela_howard (02:11.214)
obviously what happened, you know, as they say, life is what happens when you have other plans. And that's exactly what happened to me. And I'm sure to you as well. We all got stuck during the lockdowns. And I said, Hey, if I'm not going anywhere, then I'm gonna
maulik_parekh (02:28.24)
take on a project that I've always meant to do and that was to write a book. And so literally within six months from April of last year to October of last year, I researched, wrote, edited, and published the book. It went live on November 14th of last year.
angela_howard (02:28.354)
take on a project that I've always meant to do, and that was to write a book. And so literally within six months from April of last year to October of last year, I researched, wrote, edited, and published the book. It went live on November 14th of last year. That's wonderful. First of all, congratulations. That's pretty phenomenal. Thank you. I think everyone during the quarantine had some kind of extra,
maulik_parekh (02:50.46)
Thank you.
angela_howard (02:58.288)
motivation, extra drive to get things done that they haven't been able to do or they've been dreaming about. For me, it was this podcast. So for you, it was that book. So that's amazing. Yes, and congratulations on your podcast. Thank you. Well, thank you for being on and thank you for sharing your background, the journey thus far. And so I'm curious to know, you talk a lot about the future of work and I know that's kind of a buzzword. So tell us, given that you are an ex-CEO,
maulik_parekh (03:07.256)
Yes, and congratulations on your podcast.
maulik_parekh (03:24.334)
Yeah.
angela_howard (03:28.868)
You know, current entrepreneur. What is the future of work and what were you seeing when you were actually in industry? What are some of the trends or the patterns that are moving today? Yeah, so the genesis of my book was...
maulik_parekh (03:28.888)
Yes.
maulik_parekh (03:40.324)
Yeah, so the genesis of my book was during the last three years of my career as a CEO, I saw three very distinct trends actually manifesting themselves at the workplace. Number one, I saw artificial intelligence slowly infiltrating within our organization, in our processes, in our jobs.
angela_howard (03:43.67)
during the last three years of my career as a CEO, I saw three very distinct trends actually manifested themselves at the workplace. Number one, I saw artificial intelligence slowly infiltrating within our organization, in our processes, in our jobs. I saw digital natives basically storming the workplace and turning it upside down. In fact, 90% of the people, actually 95% of the people
maulik_parekh (04:03.72)
I saw digital natives basically storming the workplace and turning it upside down. In fact, 90% of the people, actually 95% of the people we hired in the last three years of my stay there were all either Gen Zers or millennials. And the third thing I noticed was that the gig economy was really changing the way how who got the job done, but also where, when, and how.
angela_howard (04:13.644)
last three years of my stay there were all either Gen Z years or millennials. And the third thing I noticed was that the gig economy was really changing the way how the who got the job done, but also where, when and how. And when I started doing some more research during the pandemic lockdown, I realized that these three trends are so
maulik_parekh (04:31.032)
And when I started doing some more research during the pandemic lockdown, I realized that these three trends are so
under the radar that if we don't spend enough time thinking about them, they're going to hit us like a big wave and can drown us all. And so I thought maybe that's the book I wanted to write, that given these three very powerful trends, how do you future-proof your careers and how do you future-proof your companies?
angela_howard (04:41.85)
Under the radar that we if we don't spend enough time thinking about them They're gonna hit us like a big wave and can drown us all and so I thought maybe that's the book I wanted to write that Given these three very powerful trends. How do you future proof your careers and how do you feature proof your companies? Hmm. Yeah, there's kind of a To your point. There's an individual reflection to that
I start to think about my skill set and my capabilities and then there's an organizational piece Which is how are we attracting the best talent in different ways getting creative because what we're doing now is not working It's you know, the traditional workplace I think is dying Yeah, and I think that's scary. So how was that for you as a CEO thinking, you know thinking about those trends
maulik_parekh (05:19.652)
Yes.
maulik_parekh (05:24.609)
Yes.
maulik_parekh (05:29.179)
Yep.
maulik_parekh (05:36.516)
Yeah, I mean, it became very clear to me that we had to map out
angela_howard (05:37.874)
It became very clear to me that we had to map out.
maulik_parekh (05:44.128)
individual careers over the next 10 years for every employee and see whether artificial intelligence was going to replace either the entire job or some of the tasks that they were doing within the job and I write that in the book that there are three different things that if you are doing as part of your job that would be replaced by artificial intelligence over the next 10 years.
angela_howard (05:44.266)
individual careers over the next 10 years for every employee and see whether artificial intelligence was going to replace either the entire job or some of the tasks that they were doing within the job and I write that in the book that there are three different things that if you are doing as part of your job that will be replaced by artificial intelligence over the next 10 years.
maulik_parekh (06:14.202)
AI will be able to do that job. The second thing I write in the book is that if what you do has a very defined purpose and there is a large set of historical data that you can train AI algorithm with, then AI can do your job. So AI is able to now read mammograms better than trained human professionals. Why? Because there is a very defined objective and there is a large set of historical data you can train AI algorithm with.
angela_howard (06:14.3)
AI will be able to do that job. The second thing I write in the book is that if what you do has a very defined purpose and there is a large set of historical data that you can train AI algorithm with, then AI can do your job. So AI is able to now read mammograms better than
trained human professionals. Why? Because there is a very defined objective, and there is a large set of historical data you can train AI algorithm with. And the third thing is that if what you do requires only basic cognitive skills, learning, reasoning, predicting, those tasks could be done by AI as well. So then the obvious question is then what is left for the humans to do. And that's where our inherent skills and talents come to play. What are some of the things that are very
maulik_parekh (06:43.422)
The third thing is that if what you do requires only basic cognitive skills, learning, reasoning, predicting, those tasks could be done by AI as well. So then the obvious question is then, what is left for the humans to do? And that's where our inherent skills and talents come to play. What are some of the things that are very inherent in us? Number one, we can create something out of nothing. We can look at a sunset
angela_howard (07:05.428)
in us. You know, number one, we can create something out of nothing.
we can look at a sunset and be inspired to paint a masterpiece or write a poem. AI is not able to do that today. AI will just look at the sunset and say, OK, that's a sunset. It's not able to be inspired by it. We have the ability to see things holistically. We are able to look at a variety of angles. So imagine if AI was the president of a country or a CEO of a company during this COVID pandemic
maulik_parekh (07:13.9)
a masterpiece or write a poem. AI is not able to do that today. AI will just look at the sunset and say, okay, that's a sunset. It's not able to be inspired by it. We have the ability to see things holistically. We are able to look at variety of angles. So imagine if AI was the precedent of a country or a CEO of a company during this COVID pandemic crisis, it would have failed miserably because only human beings are able
angela_howard (07:40.796)
it would have failed miserably because only human beings are able to look at the societal impact, the economic impact, you know, a variety of impact this crisis is bringing to us. So that's another thing that we have an advantage over and how do we instill that quality to be able to see things holistically without just looking at it only from an operational perspective or a HR perspective or a marketing perspective. We need to cultivate more human beings
maulik_parekh (07:43.894)
to look at the societal impact, the economic impact, you know, a variety of impact this crisis is bringing to us. So that's another thing that we have an advantage over and how do we instill that quality to be able to see things holistically without just looking at it only from an operational perspective or a HR perspective or a marketing perspective. We need to cultivate more human beings who can see things in a general management way.
angela_howard (08:10.156)
management way. The third thing that I write about is that
maulik_parekh (08:13.954)
is that we have the ability to lead and influence people. And one day maybe AI will be able to do that. And that's why I mentioned to you earlier, Angela, that this book is written for the next 10 years, not for the next 100 years, because God knows what AI will be able to do by then. So we have the ability to lead and influence people. And that's a very unique skill. So we need to cultivate that. We need to focus on that and create the next set of leaders who are able to bring their humanity to the workplace.
angela_howard (08:15.67)
we have the ability to lead and influence people. And one day maybe AI will be able to do that. And that's why I mentioned to you earlier, Angela, that this book is written for the next 10 years, not for the next 100 years, because God knows what AI will be able to do by then. So we have the ability to lead and influence people. And that's a very unique skill. So we need to cultivate that. We need to focus on that and create the next set of leaders who are able to bring their humanity to the workplace.
I love that. Yeah, it's um, what you mentioned, I think is, you know, you're talking about the artificial intelligence being of course, it's going to evolve. But I agree with you. I think there's just some things that are part of the human condition that are unique and brilliant and figuring out that magic, I guess, with your own skill set and also the skill set and the capabilities of your people.
maulik_parekh (08:53.115)
Yes.
angela_howard (09:12.44)
I think is really important. So kind of moving to your point about the gig economy, because I think it's a great tie-in, because I feel like people are chasing experiences, and they're chasing experiences that value that human element that might be missing from artificial intelligence. And I also think it's a natural freelancing, the gig economy in general.
maulik_parekh (09:19.951)
Yeah.
maulik_parekh (09:34.66)
Yes.
angela_howard (09:42.18)
typically engage in that usually have a skill set, but they're learning holistically about different industries because they're servicing different industries. And so their individual capability is growing, but they're also adding value at scale, which is a really interesting concept. So tell me a little bit about where you think that's going to go and where we are today with the great resignation and all the things we're hearing about around how the wave of change is happening around the workplace.
maulik_parekh (10:12.484)
Yeah, as I mentioned to you, Angela, before, when I was doing research for the book, I knew that the gig economy was a very powerful force, but I was not sure whether I was going to even add that into the book. But then as I started doing research across all three trends, I realized that that's probably the most powerful trend among all, because it's about our innate desire to be free. Think about where is the frontier of freedom today?
angela_howard (10:12.6)
Yeah, you know, as I mentioned to you, Angela, before, when I was doing research for the book, I knew that the economy was a very powerful force, but I was not sure whether I was going to even add that into the book. But then as I started doing research across all three trends, I realized that that's probably the most powerful trend among all, because it's about our innate desire to be free. You know, think about where is the frontier of freedom today?
maulik_parekh (10:41.956)
Why do we say, thank God it's Friday, and not thank God it's Monday? Because from Monday to Friday, we lose some of our freedom. And if there is a way as humans, we can get that freedom back, then we have a life made, right? And that's what the freelancing allows you to do. It allows you to work on your own terms. You have so much control over who you work with. That's always the biggest problem, right?
angela_howard (10:42.06)
Why do we say thank God it's Friday and not thank God it's Monday? Because from Monday to Friday we lose some of our freedom. And if there is a way as humans we can get that freedom back.
then we have a life made, right? And that's what the freelancing allows you to do. It allows you to work on your own terms. You have so much control over who you work with. That's always the biggest problem, right? It's not what you work with or when you work with, but who you work with. You have a complete control. You can decide whether you wanna work with the client, X, Y, Z or not. You can work when you are most predictably
maulik_parekh (11:11.89)
you work with or when you work with but who you work with. You have a complete control. You can decide whether you want to work with a client XYZ or not. You can work when you are most predictably the strongest in your vocation, right? If you think that you're most creative at 2 a.m. in your pajamas at kitchen table, guess what? Do it. Make it happen. Nobody's there to tell you, hey, you know, you need to
angela_howard (11:27.038)
uh the strongest in your uh vocation right if you think that you're most creative at 2 a.m in your pajamas at kitchen table guess what do it make it happen nobody's there that sounds like me by the way 95 that sounds that sounds like me with some ice cream on the side and like drawing something on a wall somewhere at times like me as well and we all have those times
maulik_parekh (11:42.55)
What's that? That's right and you're at times like me as well and we all have those times were like you know maybe our creative
time zones are not between nine to five, then why are we forcing people to do that? So freelancing is the next wave that's gonna really change the future of work. And if you look at the numbers, in the US alone, roughly 35% of the US workforce is somehow involved in freelancing. And we are not just talking about Uber drivers or the folks who deliver pizza at your home. We're talking about highly trained professionals
angela_howard (11:55.574)
time zones are not between nine to five, then why are we forcing people to do that? So freelancing is the next wave that's gonna really change the future of work. And if you look at the numbers, you know, in the US alone, roughly 35% of the world.
maulik_parekh (12:25.362)
areas of accounting, marketing, computer design, graphical design, many very advanced fields. When I was doing research, I looked up the Upwork, which is one of the biggest platform for freelancing. I found...
graduate of Harvard Law School with his profile. Obviously, his rate was so expensive. I don't know whether anybody's paying him for anything. And I also saw a couple of Harvard MBAs. So you can tell that there are people who are saying, I forget about Wall Street. Forget about working for the big five consulting firms. I'm going to strike out on my own. I'm going to put my profile on Upwork and see if somebody's willing to pay for my services.
angela_howard (12:45.59)
with his profile. Obviously, his rate was so expensive. I don't know whether anybody's paying him for anything. And I also saw a couple of Harvard MBAs. So you can tell that there are people who are saying, oh, forget about Wall Street. Forget about working for the big five consulting firms. I'm going to strike out on my own. I'm going to put my profile on Upwork and see if somebody's willing to.
pay for my services. And I mean, look at your life, Angela. You were just talking about how you're making that transition. You've been working at Fortune 500 companies for many years, very successful career, and you are in that process of transitioning to strike out on your own. Yeah, it's, well, the piece around freedom really hit home for me when you said that. And I think it's also designing your time,
maulik_parekh (13:11.958)
your life, Angela. We were just talking about how you're making that transition. You've been working at Fortune 500 companies for many years, very successful career, and you are in that process of transitioning to strike out on your own.
angela_howard (13:41.165)
I'm a builder, so even when I worked within Fortune 500 companies, I always was someone who loved going in, building, and then helping that team sustain whatever I built, right? So building the behaviors and the adoption of it. And so I think people who are natural builders kind of tend to have this entrepreneurial spirit and they either find companies that support that entrepreneurial spirit or kill
maulik_parekh (13:49.327)
Yeah.
maulik_parekh (14:03.076)
Yes.
maulik_parekh (14:10.432)
Yes.
angela_howard (14:10.584)
And that's to say that mine was killed necessarily, but at some point I think that spirit either needs to live internally as an intrapreneur. I don't know if you've heard that term before. So how can companies, I guess there's two options, right?
maulik_parekh (14:13.329)
Mm-hmm.
maulik_parekh (14:20.908)
Yeah, yes, yeah, absolutely.
maulik_parekh (14:30.959)
Yeah.
angela_howard (14:36.638)
freelancers or contingent working as a part of their workforce model. But what are some things that companies can do to kind of duplicate that freedom within a company and create more intrapreneurs so that need is satisfied with people who are builders and like to and have that entrepreneurial spirit? Yeah, I think that's an excellent point. I actually write about that in the book that.
maulik_parekh (14:59.512)
Yeah, I think that's an excellent point. I actually write about that in the book that, you know, the future belongs to the companies who have created that spirit of entrepreneurship, right? Because think about it, as a company in the past, you used to compete with other companies for talent. Now you have one more competitor. And that is...
angela_howard (15:05.758)
the future belongs to the companies who have created that spirit of entrepreneurship, right? Because think about it, as a company in the past, you used to compete with other companies for talent. Yes. Now you have one more competitor. Mm-hmm. And that is...
maulik_parekh (15:25.156)
people's desire to strike out on their own. So when you're looking for people, they're wondering, okay, do I join this company or do I start something on my own? That was not an option I had when I was starting out my career. That was not an option my parents had. That's an option Gen Zers and millennials have, all of us have now.
angela_howard (15:25.282)
people's desire to strike out on their own. So when you're looking for people, they're wondering, okay, do I join this company or do I start something on my own? Yes. That was not an option I had when I was starting out my career. That was not an option my parents had. That's an option Gen Zers and millennials have, all of us have now. Yeah. And they are utilizing that. And in order for you to...
maulik_parekh (15:48.352)
And they are utilizing that. And in order for you to stand out as a company that they would like to work for, you do need to create a spirit of entrepreneurship. And the way to do that is look at companies like Spotify, look at companies like Netflix, look at companies like Amazon. What's different between them and some of the traditional companies,
angela_howard (15:53.406)
stand out as a company that they would like to work for, you do need to create a spirit of entrepreneurship. Entrepreneurship. Mm-hmm. Entrepreneurship. Yes. And the way to do that is look at companies like Spotify. Look at companies like Netflix. Look at companies like Amazon. What's different between them and some of the traditional companies, let's say, like
jc penny or sears companies will file for bankruptcies over the last uh... years differences the spotty fires of the world employees who are sitting on a mothership and moving very slowly put them in smaller groups and put them in speedboats
maulik_parekh (16:18.946)
or Sears, companies who have filed for bankruptcies over the last two years. The difference is the Spotify's of the world, they took their employees who are sitting on a mothership and moving very slowly and put them in smaller groups and put them in speed boats. So imagine.
If you have an opportunity to work for a company and company on your first day says, hey, look, you are part of this group and on your own, you will decide who is the leader of that group, who will do what within that group. And that role could keep changing based on your skillset, based on your strengths, as long as what you are doing is aligned with our overarching goal.
angela_howard (16:49.418)
If you have an opportunity to work for a company and company on your first day says, Hey, look, you are part of this group and on your own, you will decide who is the leader of that group, who will do what within that group. And that role could keep changing based on your skillset, based on your strengths. As long as what you are doing is aligned with our overarching goal. That's exactly what Spotify is doing. They are.
maulik_parekh (17:15.212)
That's exactly what Spotify is doing. They are utilizing agile methodology in their workplace, which requires basically to break down all the barriers, break down all the walls, break down all the layers, and it puts essentially the CEO of the company at the same level as an entry-level person who is part of that squad, they call it, who is on a speedboat, and they're able to move very, very fast. And that's why Spotify has gone from zero subscribers
angela_howard (17:18.637)
they're utilizing agile methodology in their workplace, which requires basically to break down all the barriers, break down all the walls, break down all the layers. And it puts essentially the CEO of the company at the same level as an entry level person who is part of that squad, they call it, who is on a speedboat. And they're able to move very, very fast. And that's why Spotify has gone from zero subscribers to now over a hundred million subscribers in a, you know,
maulik_parekh (17:45.386)
over 100 million subscribers in no time. Same thing with Netflix. Same thing with Amazon.
angela_howard (17:48.69)
Same thing with Netflix, same thing with Amazon. And you know, it's very easy to ask ourselves like, well, maybe it works for this new age technology companies, but that's not the case. I know many traditional companies, including ING, which is one of the, you know.
maulik_parekh (17:52.208)
And you know, it's very easy to ask ourselves like, well, maybe it works for this new age technology companies, but that's not the case. I know many traditional companies, including ING, which is one of the most revered financial organizations in the world. They have a history that dates back to 1840s. And yet, just recently in 2016, they adapted and they embraced this agile way of thinking
angela_howard (18:08.678)
revered financial organizations in the world. They have a history that dates back to 1840s and yet just recently in 2016 they adapted and they embraced this agile way of doing things and they are significantly better because of that. So as long as companies do that
maulik_parekh (18:21.542)
doing things and they are significantly better because of that. So as long as companies do that, they would be able to attract the younger generations because at the end of the day, guess what? By 2030, 66% of our workforce will be millennials and Gen Zers, the people we think are the interns or the soya latte drinking, headphone wearing hippies. They'll be running the show, so we might as well get to know them.
angela_howard (18:27.938)
they would be able to attract the younger generations. Because at the end of the day, guess what? By 2030, 66% of our workforce will be millennials and Gen Zers, the people we think are the interns or the soy latte drinking, the one wearing hippies. Yeah. They'll be running the show. So we might as well get to know them.
Yeah, it kind of cracks me up when I talk to leaders and CEOs and they talk about millennials like they're kids. I'm a millennial, right? And I'm getting close to 40.
maulik_parekh (19:00.372)
Yeah, yeah, I mean, I'm talking about millennials in here. I'm probably talking to a millennial here. Yeah.
angela_howard (19:06.138)
No, and that's the thing. Yeah, it's like people forget, you know, your oldest millennial is 40 and has kids of their own and is running businesses. And so it's not, you know, it's not millennials we need to look out for. We're old news. The Gen Zs, they're a whole new breed, which is
maulik_parekh (19:13.71)
Yeah.
maulik_parekh (19:23.184)
completely different.
angela_howard (19:24.942)
purpose driven and socially conscious and really asking the tough questions to organizations and say what are you going to do for me? Which is, yeah and the world, yes.
maulik_parekh (19:26.735)
Yes.
Yes.
maulik_parekh (19:36.092)
Yes, and the world. Yeah, yeah.
angela_howard (19:40.798)
So it's a whole new, we could talk about, I would love at some point to talk to you about the purpose element of this because this is another piece that I feel like, it connects to the gig economy because people are being relentless with their individual purpose and if organizations cannot make their purpose clear and resonate, then they are in a really bad position.
So organizational identity is something that I've been really interested in lately because I think this next generation is connecting their identity to either what they're going to do or an organization that aligns with their own identity. No, I totally agree actually. You would really love this book by the way. I'm absolutely going to read it. No, because there is an entire chapter on the purpose.
maulik_parekh (20:28.516)
No, I totally agree actually. You would really love this book by the way. I should probably send you a copy. No, because there is an entire chapter on the purpose. And the title of that chapter is, The Future is Meaningful.
angela_howard (20:40.898)
that chapter is the future is meaningful. In still a purpose, right. And what that means is that gone are the days where a CEO would hold this huge check, give it to the charity and then put that picture on their annual report and there will be a paragraph about that. And that's pretty much it. Now I think you need to leave and breathe you need to you know, shed your blood, sweat, tears every single day.
maulik_parekh (20:44.6)
instill a purpose, right? And what that means is that gone are the days where a CEO would hold this huge check and give it to the charity and then put that picture on their annual report and there would be a paragraph about that. And that's pretty much it. Now I think you need to leave and breathe. You need to shed your blood, sweat and tears every single day.
And everything you do has to be aligned with that purpose. So it doesn't look so disconnected, that it's not like these two people in the company sitting in that corner are the only responsible people for the CSR or for the purpose. The entire company is completely committed to it and driven by it.
angela_howard (21:09.43)
and everything you do has to be aligned with that purpose. So it doesn't look so disconnected that it's not like these two people in the company sitting in that corner are the only responsible people for the CSR or for the purpose. The entire company is completely committed to it and driven by it. Absolutely. And that is.
That is so important because there is a, I had an episode, actually when I first started the podcast about this idea of workplace spirituality, which fascinates me, because it is around this organizational identity piece and the organization is an entity of itself. What it is driven to do, what motivates it, when does it say no? When I say it, you're talking about leadership for the most part,
maulik_parekh (21:45.42)
Yeah.
angela_howard (22:04.256)
piece is how do people, how are you, is your purpose waking your people up every morning and saying, I'm going to work to do this. And I also think people are in jobs that their purpose doesn't align with the purpose of the organization. That's why they're miserable, unfortunately. And so it's again, an opportunity for awakening to say, and that's why the shuffle of people is happening right now, because people are waking up saying, my purpose never aligned
maulik_parekh (22:14.715)
Yeah.
angela_howard (22:34.276)
organization so I'm out, peace out. And so that's where, and that's where the gig economy comes in when people realize like, oh I can do this on my own, monetize it, and then have freedom and set my own schedule. You know, why didn't I think about this a decade ago?
maulik_parekh (22:37.646)
Yeah.
maulik_parekh (22:52.9)
No, I agree. And a lot of the companies think that...
angela_howard (22:55.63)
I mean, it's a thing that, you know, we don't have time for the purpose and the CSR, our job.
maulik_parekh (22:58.104)
you know, we don't have time for the purpose and the CSR. Our job as leaders is to increase shareholder value. But guess what? One way to increase the shareholder value is to create an inspired set of employees, right? And I think it was Bain and company who did this study and they found that if you have an employee who is happy, just happy with, you know, with the company, they will essentially give you 100% of their productivity.
angela_howard (23:03.338)
as leaders is to increase shareholder value. But guess what? One way to increase the shareholder value is to create an inspired set of employees, right? And I think it was Bain and Company who did this study and they found that if you have an employee who is happy, just happy with the company, they will essentially give you 100% of their productivity.
maulik_parekh (23:26.496)
If you have an employee who is motivated by financial gains, for example, they will give you maybe 144% of their productivity. But if you have an employee who is truly inspired, that's different than being motivated, they would give you 225% of their productivity. Imagine that. I mean, it's almost like doubling your workforce with the same cost. So
angela_howard (23:26.622)
If you have an employee who is motivated by financial gains, for example, they will give you maybe 144% of their productivity. But if you have an employee who is truly inspired, that's different than being motivated.
they would give you 225% of their productivity. Imagine that. I mean, it's almost like doubling your workforce. Yes. With the same cost. So having a purpose and having a CSR is not just morally the right thing to do. For business leaders, it's actually the most pragmatic thing you can do. Because it essentially ends up in the bottom line.
maulik_parekh (23:54.508)
Having a purpose and having a CSR is not just morally the right thing to do. For business leaders, it's actually the most pragmatic thing you can do because it essentially ends up in the bottom line.
angela_howard (24:12.058)
Yes, and so I wanted to ask you because you were a CEO, you ran a company, why do leaders have such a mental block with this concept? My experience is I spend, because I'm in the field of working with CEOs and executives and helping them understand why we should work on engagement or why we should work on
performance in development and all these things that seem sometimes like I get the response like this is frivolous. You know, like this is a nice to have. So where is the mental block coming in? Because we have all this data. Is it time? Help me understand.
maulik_parekh (24:53.508)
No, it's the way things have been done in the past. It's a traditional way of managing. Even Milton Friedman, who is a renowned economist, he wrote an article in New York Times in 1970. And his whole thesis in that article was that the entire purpose of companies' leaders
angela_howard (25:05.167)
He wrote an article in New York Times in 1970, and his whole thesis in that article...
angela_howard (25:14.446)
The entire purpose of companies leaders should be to increase the shareholder value. Companies leaders have no responsibility for the community at large. And I actually end my chapter with one liner that says, needless to say, in 1970, Mr. Friedman had not met.
maulik_parekh (25:19.98)
should be to increase the shareholder value. Companies leaders have no responsibility for the community at large. And I actually end my chapter with one liner that says, needless to say, in 1970, Mr. Friedman had not met Gen Zers and millennials. So one way to actually create
angela_howard (25:44.019)
gents ears. So one way to actually create awareness with company leaders is to, you know, show them first of all, so many surveys, I actually write a few of them in the book that some 75% of the millennials would actually switch jobs, despite getting paid less to work for a company with a higher purpose, you know, with a stronger purpose. gents ears would not only look at
maulik_parekh (25:48.216)
awareness with company leaders is to show them, first of all, so many surveys done. I actually write a few of them in the book that some 75% of the millennials would actually switch jobs despite getting paid less to work for a company with a higher purpose.
with a stronger purpose. Gen Zers would not only look at your website and see what you're, all the big things you're writing and the big words you're using, but they would actually do research. They will make sure that you're walking your talk. I mean, they're pretty nosy people. They are a skeptical bunch. And so they're gonna find out if you're gonna, you're just making things up or you're really walking your talk. So.
angela_howard (26:12.406)
your website and see what you are, you know, all the big things you are writing and the big words you are using. They would actually do research. They would make sure that you are walking your talk. They are pretty nosy people. They are a skeptical bunch. So they are going to find out if you are just making things up or you are really walking your talk. So that's one way to do that is obviously show them some of the surveys done and...
maulik_parekh (26:35.248)
That's one way to do that is obviously, show them some of the surveys done and let them have a focus group with their own employees who are Gen Zers and millennials and ask them how important it is for them to have a purpose. I mean, just one quick thing that comes to my mind, Angela, is I thought, according to Maslow's law of hierarchy, younger people in the US are more likely to be
angela_howard (26:40.374)
Let them have a focus group with their own employees who are Gen Zers and millennials, and ask them how important it is for them to have a purpose. I mean, just one quick thing that comes to my mind, Angela, is I thought, you know, according to Maslow's law of hierarchy, younger people in the US are more likely to be
maulik_parekh (27:04.092)
open to this whole concept of companies must have a purpose and there must be a CSR angle to the company. But I live in the Philippines. We did a survey within our own company and the younger folks within my company are equally passionate about having the right purpose and a company believing in a CSR, company having a social cause. So it has nothing to do with...
angela_howard (27:22.294)
the right purpose and company believing in a CSR, company having a social cause. So it has nothing to do with Maslow's law of hierarchy. They may not come from the same background in terms of riches or the economic strata, but all young people throughout the world, because of internet and how interconnected they are, they all want to do the same thing.
maulik_parekh (27:32.524)
with Maslow's law of hierarchy, they may not come from the same background in terms of riches or the economic strata, but all young people throughout the world, because of internet and how interconnected they are, they all want to do the same thing. So it's a global phenomenon.
angela_howard (27:50.426)
And it goes back, I think, to our original.
the original thing you mentioned about humans, right? I mean, this is like full circle. It goes back to this, these are elements that make us human. And if, yes, organizations can focus on AI to do these tasks, but if you're employing humans, which you're going to still need to do because there are things that AI can't do, like lead and influence, influencing is the toughest part. I mean, building a machine is really hard,
maulik_parekh (27:56.943)
Yeah.
maulik_parekh (28:05.989)
Yeah.
maulik_parekh (28:14.585)
Yeah.
maulik_parekh (28:23.172)
Yeah.
angela_howard (28:23.632)
influencing human beings is even tougher because you're working with some similarities, which is things like purpose, but being able to motivate and inspire is such a...
a tough thing to do. And so I think leaders struggle with that, especially leaders who, you know, it's black and white, right? Like, we have a goal, we're going to meet that goal, and there's no gray in between as to how that goal is met. And that's where people burn out. And I think that's where people leave companies because there's nothing, there's no soul for them to or purpose for them to connect to. Absolutely. You know, and it's
maulik_parekh (29:01.036)
Absolutely, and it reminds me of the paradox that we have in our society now, Angela, and that is if you look at what's happening in the AI world, companies are spending billions of dollars in trying to make AI more human. So now we have chatbots that can answer as if there was a human being sitting in India answering your chat.
angela_howard (29:04.494)
reminds me of the paradox that we have in our society now, Angela, and that is if you look at what's happening in the AI world, companies are spending billions of dollars in trying to make AI more human. So now we have chatbots that can answer as if there was a human being sitting in India answering your chat. Right. There are...
maulik_parekh (29:30.48)
There are.
companies were trying to add empathy into AI. There is Sophia, the humanoid robot. They have created a face and it can emote some 32,000 different emotions. I didn't even know we have that many emotions, but we do, I mean, our face can, with all the permutations, can come up with 32,000 ways of expressing our emotions. We are spending so much money doing that, and yet, what do we do after we hire our employees?
angela_howard (29:32.278)
These were trying to add empathy into AI. There is Sophia, the humanoid robot. They created a face and it can emote some 32,000 different emotions. I didn't even know we have that many emotions, but we do. I mean, our face can, you know, with all the permutations can come up with 32,000 ways of expressing our emotions. We are spending so much money doing that. And yet, what do we do after we have...
maulik_parekh (30:03.303)
We put them through rules and regulations. We give them a manual. We give them a training. We put a fence around them and say, badge out your humanity. Forget about your creativity. This is what we want you to do. So we are taking humans and making them robots, while we are trying to make robots and trying to make them humans. That needs to change.
angela_howard (30:03.427)
We put them through rules and regulations. We give them a manual. We give them a training. We put a fence around them and say, badge out your humanity. Forget about your creativity. This is what we want you to do. So we are taking humans and making them robots while we are trying to make robots and trying to make them humans. That needs to change.
maulik_parekh (30:31.672)
I think companies over the next 10 years need to really think about how do they bring out the soft skills of their employees. How do we allow our humans to...
angela_howard (30:31.886)
I think companies over the next 10 years need to really think about how do they bring out the soft skills of their employees. How do we allow our humans to really regain, to reclaim their humaneness that we have taken away from them.
maulik_parekh (30:45.46)
really regain to reclaim their humanness that we have taken away from them. And I saw that. I mean, I worked in an industry business process outsourcing. We used to have thousands of employees taking calls on behalf of American customers or Australian customers, answering emails, answering chats. And it was such a regularized environment that we did not give our employees a chance to think on their feet.
angela_howard (30:51.05)
And I saw that. I mean, I worked in an industry business process, outsourcing. We used to have thousands of employees taking calls on behalf of American customers or Australian customers, answering emails, answering chats. And it was such a regularized environment that.
We did not give our employees a chance to think on their feet. And in the last five years that I was with the company, I started, along with some other industry leaders, did a pilot where we went to our clients and said, hey, I know you're giving us business, but you're also giving us this very strong framework to work within. And we're losing our employees. They're burning out, to your point, earlier. Because they don't feel like they are alive. They feel like they're machines.
maulik_parekh (31:13.184)
And in the last five years that I was with the company, I started, along with some other industry leaders, did a pilot where we went to our clients and said, hey, I know you're giving us business, but you're also giving us this very strong framework to work within. And we're losing our employees. They're burning out, to your point earlier, because they don't feel like they are alive when they are doing it. They feel like they are machines. So we did the pilot which allowed them to think on their feet. And guess what? That worked.
angela_howard (31:37.706)
So we did the pilot which allowed them to think on their feet. And guess what? That worked. And companies actually said, you know what? We'll be willing to pay more money if you can find employees and train them to think on their feet. But it was so hard to do because we have trained these people for 15 years not to think. And then we said, hey, now you start thinking. It's very hard.
maulik_parekh (31:42.924)
And companies actually said, you know what, we'll be willing to pay more money if you can find employees and train them to think on their feet. But it was so hard to do because we have trained these people for 15 years not to think. And then we said, hey, now you start thinking. It's very hard.
angela_howard (32:01.494)
Yeah, you, gosh, your analogy about making AI more human and humans more, like that just, that hit my heart and my soul because that is, that is the work we're doing here, right? And it's discouraging, it's encouraging that I think we're moving, people are realizing that we can't afford not to do that, making workplaces more human.
maulik_parekh (32:16.73)
Yeah.
angela_howard (32:31.508)
but it's a strong concept that you just mentioned here, which is we're paying bots and AI to become more human, but we're not investing in our people who are human and using that capability that is so unique and powerful. Yeah, absolutely. I think the future is human. I mean, I actually have, you know, I have a lot of experience with AI. I think the future is human. I mean, I actually have, you know, I have a lot of experience with AI. I think the future is human. I mean, I actually have, you know, I have a lot of experience with AI. I think the future is human. I mean, I actually have, you know, I have a lot of experience with AI.
maulik_parekh (32:38.381)
Yeah.
maulik_parekh (32:52.824)
Yeah, absolutely. I think the future is human. I mean, I actually have two chapters. One says future is AI, be a human. But then the other one says future is people, be an alchemist. What does that mean? That people are not going anywhere over the next 10 years. Technology is not gonna replace us, at least for the next 10 years. We need to be an alchemist. We need to be the person that spark that brings out the best in other people.
angela_howard (33:00.798)
chapters one says future is AI be a human but then the other one says future is people be an alchemist what does that mean that people are not going anywhere over the next 10 years technology is not going to replace us at least for the next 10 years we need to be an alchemist we are we need to be the person that spark that brings out the best in other people and ourselves if we can do that then obviously you know our careers
maulik_parekh (33:22.368)
and ourselves. If we can do that, then obviously, you know, our careers and our companies are future-proof.
angela_howard (33:31.31)
I love it. Well, Malik, it was an absolute pleasure. I loved this conversation. I think that you are onto something, and I know you're executing on that with your work, and so thank you for all you do. And is there anything else you wanna mention before we kinda close out today? No, I thank you, Angela, for having me. I really enjoyed this conversation. Didn't feel like a podcast, actually. It felt like I'm talking to you.
maulik_parekh (33:53.424)
No, thank you, Angela, for having me. I really enjoyed this conversation. Didn't feel like a podcast, actually. It felt like I'm talking to a friend that I've known for many years. So we need to continue our conversation beyond this podcast. But if anybody's interested in checking out the book, it's available on Amazon, and it's titled, Future Proof Your Career and Company Flourish in an Era of AI, Digital Natives, and the Geek Economy.
angela_howard (34:00.746)
to a friend that I've known for many years. So we need to continue our conversation beyond this podcast. But if anybody's interested in checking out the book, it's available on Amazon and it's titled, Future Proof Your Career and Company Flourish in an Era of AI, Digital Natives and the Geek Economy.
Perfect, and we will make sure to put a link in the show notes so people can directly access that Thank you again so much and thanks for sharing your insights and your knowledge and Your magic with us. I really I really appreciate it
maulik_parekh (34:39.696)
Thank you very much, Angela.
