Neuroscience of the Workplace with Jordan Zezza
angela_r_howard (00:02.099)
hey Jordan welcome to the podcast it's good to have you
jordan_zezza (00:04.74)
Hey Angela happy to be here
angela_r_howard (00:08.939)
and I'm excited about our conversation today you and I had a chance to work together kind of in real-time which makes this I think a natural conversation because some of the work we've been doing has been in the neuroscience space but from different angles you know me coming in and working with with you and your team on leadership and you kind of working in the space of neuroscience a day to day basis as far as
jordan_zezza (00:36.86)
yeah
angela_r_howard (00:37.619)
the research and the science and the insights behind it so tell us who you are what you do and the impact you're looking to make on the world
jordan_zezza (00:40.46)
m
jordan_zezza (00:44.undefined)
yeah yeah thanks so jJordanez I'm currently working in data science portfolio management so I lead you to know basically what that means is I lead a team of a couple of project managers that partner with you know computational neuroscientists and you know neuroscience strategists that are kind of leading data science efforts in how we impact the neuroscience pipeline and so we partner with them to kind of organize
their project plans and you know make sure that you know we're making an impact along the pipeline with data science so you know we sort of bucket our work into strategy operations and in project management and you know it's been that's kind of the space that I've played in for my you know pretty much entire career so you know I've worked I'm in parma now and you know kind of we'll talk about the impact in a little bit but I've kind of worked across the
care spectrum so when I entered the work for us I entered at an integrated payer-provider system and so had the opportunity to work in space like hospital operations and data science at an insurance company and you know worked for a post-acute care management company and you know then I did some work and in finance actually which was a little bit dryer part of my career and you know hopefully for any of my finance colleagues that may hear this will take that light-hearted lad
angela_r_howard (02:09.159)
ye
jordan_zezza (02:13.72)
but you know it was you know I've had a very wide range of experience across health care and so you know that's I studied neuroscience as an undergrad as you know we talked about and you know I'm not a neuroscientist I did go and get a master's degree in management and organizational leadership so you know kind of look to blend my stem background and my passion for nero science with a business degree and you know how we can figure out how to make it broad
angela_r_howard (02:14.259)
yeah
jordan_zezza (02:44.56)
uh impact with nescience and you know that kind of takes me to my why so you know just like most people who are in health care that I've spoken to and kind of stick in health care their entire career you know they have a personal tie to it so my grandmother was you know diagnosed and passed away from house timers disease and so you now that was kind of my motivation for studying neuroscience going into it um and I did you know want to take that p h d uh career route
you know I got some advice from professors that you know if you want to make a nice and broad impact you know they kind of just professed to me that I have the skill set to kind of maybe go a business route and just kind of take this you know more of a unique path I guess you can say and so you know I have seen more and more of this trend in recent years but you know at the time there was I didn't know of a lot of people that would study science you know and undergrad and then kind of go more
angela_r_howard (03:42.659)
m hm
jordan_zezza (03:43.78)
it's a business master agree but I did do that and you know I kind of feel like I came full circle here and now I'm kind of working on a neuroscience team and I'm kind of the business person among p h's if you will and I enjoy working with people that are you know way smarter than me I'm not afraid to say that but I'm happy to be kind of the person that you know brings them together in a way and lead a team that helps us you know to get organized and you know to make sure that we were making an impact in the space so
angela_r_howard (04:00.659)
oh
jordan_zezza (04:14.08)
my why goes back to my family and wanting to have an impact on patients you know and families that have gone through those you know tough experiences with really all diseases but I'm happy to be focused on narrow science and uh yeah that's a little bit about me
angela_r_howard (04:34.059)
that's awesome and thank you for sharing that story it's profound and you know it I'm sure it guides your work every day as you're working with the scientists on the brain and oh how we can make the quality of life better for everyone and you know we also think about this in a similar way like you said from a business perspective so you know my background is industrial organizational psychology which is kind of this like merging of stem sciences
jordan_zezza (04:34.78)
yeah absolutely
jordan_zezza (04:45.98)
yeah
jordan_zezza (04:53.8)
m hm
jordan_zezza (05:03.7)
m hm
angela_r_howard (05:04.679)
data research but also the application of that within organizations and business so I feel like we're kindred spirits in that way where we have kind of this dull brain approach to the work so one of the things I would love to talk more about just got a basic level I want to eventually talk about human center design which I think it's a great merging of both of our areas of experts but when we think
nero science and work what are some things that we should be thinking about as far as the impact we're making on people within the workplace
jordan_zezza (05:42.7)
yeah I mean I would say you know and we'll kind of get to this with you know human center design but I think you know a lot of well I'll just go back and say you know I'm not necessarily a nero scientist so I do want to you know say that and you know from a psychological standpoint you know I'm not necessarily a psychologist but what I can say in terms of the neuroscience of the workplace and you know kind of getting to the human center design piece of it um you know one of the things that
angela_r_howard (05:58.279)
hm
jordan_zezza (06:12.48)
I was taught very early on in my career around the topic of psychological safety in the workplace and creating a team environment where you know people you know can feel free to speak their minds and that's the way really that you know innovation can thrive and so I think creating that psychologically safe workplace is important and I think you know we kind of work together on starting to create that for you know a team that was newly formed you know
angela_r_howard (06:20.319)
m
jordan_zezza (06:43.34)
I've kind of been a part of I've had the luxury in my career I started m you know the reason I was able to list all those different functions I was a part of was I was in a rotational program to kind of start my career and so I've had the luxury of seeing several different teams and several different leaders both high performing and you know I've worked with people that have had lower performing teams and have had you know kind of not so great leaders um and the really clear lie
of delineation between a good leader maybe not so good leader is the leader that can create a psychologically safe space um and feel that when we do kind of speak up and we're able to you know um kind of proposed ideas that might be against the grain or might be some of the more difficult conversations you know I would say that you know those leaders then act on that kind of empower the ploy employ
use to then say you know hey I'm speaking up and then I see a change as a result of that and so you know I think you know along those lines with psychological safety we get to that radical candor and so when you create that psychological safety and you know you you can create that sort of radical candor within your team and that's how you kind of progress more quickly through the teaming life cycle of you know forming storming norming and no kind of going along that that
cycle so I think from you know neuroscience standpoint and a psychology standpoint creating that psychologically safe space where you know leaders and team members feel that they can speak candidly and there you know they can kind of provide that radical candor I think that I think that's you know a really good place to be with a team so you know thankfully we kind of have that where I'm at now so it's good
angela_r_howard (08:31.559)
hm
angela_r_howard (08:41.759)
it's wonderful in psychological safety I mean it's as you know with some of the work that we've done it's grounded in um how the brain works how humans work through collective goals together and you know some of the very basic I don't know primal consistencies that we all are faced with within the workplace that you know can make an environment
um a place where people are forced to be in survival mode or they're thriving and contributing to the goals so um so this is how we get to human center design I think because um you know people I think oftentimes think about the design of the work and that's necessarily the humans that are doing the work so tell us a little bit more about what human center design is and your perspective on it
jordan_zezza (09:22.48)
yep
jordan_zezza (09:29.58)
hm
jordan_zezza (09:36.9)
yeah absolutely so you know and you know maybe should have mentioned in my intro so I'm a certified practitioner of human center design so I do want to you know throw that out there that I've been certified as a practitioner but you know I'm not necessarily an expert but I feel that I do use it enough and in my day to day work and try to use some of the practices in place where maybe they're not typically used and so you know excited to kind of you now talk about that a little bit more but you
angela_r_howard (09:46.119)
m
angela_r_howard (09:53.819)
m
jordan_zezza (10:06.78)
a center design is essentially you know the problem-solving technique or an approach where you're essentially putting the human at the center of what you're doing and the human experience so what you know what you feel what you see what you taste touch and you know you're kind of putting that like I said the human experience at what you're doing and you know typically human center design is used in things like product development or process in
mean and you know I'm part of what I'm trying to do is just think about how we bring center design into places where you know people are not so familiar with it so you know right now I working in r and d and data science and you know oftentimes you know obviously when we're running clinical trials and you know are you know doing drug development are just health care in general for developing a program
you know for patients in need or developing a program for an unmet need um you know you're thinking about the patients but you know particularly in a space like data science we talk about patients all the time whether it's at the pay or whether it's at in parma you know wherever that data science function might live but you know realistically they're kind of behind a number and so bringing that human-centered design to some of the things that we do into our data day
work will kind of bring to light kind of the human experience m you know one of the examples I do want to tell a little example of a human center design that I think is um it's not necessarily focused in the workplace but I think it highlights the essence of what human center design is and kind of how it can be different than typical process improvement for example so um and I do want to credit co-worker a previous co-worker that had told me this story but there was essentially a large airport
angela_r_howard (11:46.099)
yeah
jordan_zezza (12:06.74)
I think it was the Houston airport and you know basically what was happening as they were having poor customer experience scores on their surveys and the root cause of that was they were waiting long for their baggage claim so from the time that they were exiting the aircraft you know and then they were waiting at baggage claim it was let's just say it was twenty minutes or so and so you know the solution that the airport executives essentially came up with was
let's bring in a lean Six Sigma process improvement you know group of consultants that you know can help us kind of improve our throughput rate and process and you know we'll get the bags to the customers faster and so they did that let's say they cut it in half it was you know reduced from twenty minutes to maybe ten minutes and so they anticipated seeing significant improvement scores um and the next quarter when they did the customer experience scores you know you can probably infer they didn't see much of a much of it
angela_r_howard (13:06.719)
m
jordan_zezza (13:06.74)
improvement um so then what they did was they kind of brought in a group of human center design consultants and you know what they did was you know there's a framework in a human center design called the double diamond and we can talk about that a little bit but um you know the first thing they do is that they hone in on what is it that you're solving for what is the real you know thing that you're solving for and when you look at that it's it was customer experience it was that human experience of waiting and so essentially you know
angela_r_howard (13:28.119)
m
angela_r_howard (13:35.619)
hm
jordan_zezza (13:37.56)
their analysis and you know what they were looking at in terms of the process they weren't looking at improving the rates of how fast the bag can get to the baggage claim but they were looking at the humans physically waiting in that space and so what they did was they built a small extension on to the airport and they re-routed the customers from you know when they got off the aircraft instead of taking two or three minutes to get to baggage claim they routed them so it took ten minutes or so so by the time they got there the bags were already there
and sure enough, you know the next quarter you know they saw the customer experience scores and they skyrocketed so I think that story there you know highlights the essence of human center design because you're not solving for a process or a throughput rate or this you know trying to add more people to unload the bags or increase the rate at which you know the conveyor belts are moving what you're doing is solving for the actual human
angela_r_howard (14:08.099)
hm
jordan_zezza (14:36.76)
experience and we know in many cases for large corporations when you're looking at um you know when you're looking at your customers it's you know that that's obviously tied to the bottom line and then when you're looking at your employees internally and their um you know their kind of experience that's also tied to the bottom line as well so I know that story doesn't necessarily focus in the workplace but I think it highlights the essence of what human center design is and how it's a little bit different then you know your typical problem-solving approach
angela_r_howard (14:50.359)
m hm
angela_r_howard (15:07.199)
yeah I know I love that example because it does highlight the fact that you know you're talking about first of all thinking about the end goal what are we trying to solve for and also you're you know being considerate of the people you're serving you know you're not serving the process when it comes to customer experience and employs experience you're serving people and humans and what are some parts of the human condition that can
jordan_zezza (15:26.94)
yeah that's right
angela_r_howard (15:37.059)
frustrating or barriers to delighting that group or getting that group what they need baggage is one thing but that could also be you know a working group or a team or how they're functioning and so what are some of the tools I guess because I've seen some I mean human under design it's kind of a philosophy but there's also a set of tools just like lean six sigma what are some of the things that are important to consider
jordan_zezza (15:40.8)
m hm
jordan_zezza (15:59.54)
yeah
yes
yeah you know I would say in terms of m I mean in terms of tangible resources you know for listeners who are more interested in getting into human center design you know mural is a great tool that's a line to human center design murals a virtual whiteboard essentially but it comes with a bunch of different frameworks that kind of outline you know human center design and so that's one of my my favorite things to leverage so I would say that's sort of a tangible tool and another good resource to learn more about human center design and dies
and thinking is um there's a website called Design Kit dot and it's a free website that outlines you know different methods for you know center design so you know in terms of the tools I think the broad framework that human center design kind of operates within is that that double din and approach and you know you can google it if you just google double diamond human center design you'll kind of find a bunch of different articles on it and you know you know what it is
is the approach is if you could imagine the first diamond being the m the problem space right and then the second diamond is more of the solution space is what they call it and so when you're sort of in the in the first diamond for the um you know the problem space what you're doing is you're kind of cascading um and trying to understand what the problem is and in that phase is the discover phase right so you're trying to understand what
jordan_zezza (17:34.68)
what is you know what's the problem that we're actually solving for and so kind of going back to that example of the airport you know you'd really be looking at the human experience and so some tools that you might use there are our frameworks for interviewing or shadowing or customer experience mapping and you know a lot of that is kind of you know somewhat desk research but then also kind of taking into account some of the experiences if you kind of jump into the process and start asking questions the second piece
that is kind of the define phase where you're more so defining the actual problem so at first you're kind of casting a wide net and then you're looking to define the specific problem and so you know what you can do there is you know leverage customer experience mapping for example and this is the process of you know looking at what a customer what a person is going through in a particular know with whatever framework you're using
and you're trying to map exactly what their experience is and it's not just from you know like you said we're not serving the process were serving the person so what are they seeing what are they feeling what are they hearing um what are they tasting touching whatever that might be you know what is that person experiencing um and that can kind of get you to the specific problem that that you want to solve the second piece of that diamond when you start to get into the solution space
um you sort of once again cast that wide net so we're casting and then we're you know honing in and now we're casting a wide net again and you know we're developing um you know we might be developing an actual solution to a problem so whether that would be a process or a product or you know a way of working and some of the tools you can use there's a bunch of different frameworks for this but one of the tools that I like to use there is is what's called a minimum viable product or an m v p and so really you look for you know what is the
what are the minimum kind of components necessary for the strategy to work for this framework to work for this process to work you kind of can map those out to try to understand you know like we said what are the minimum things that we need to get this to work and then the last thing is really the delivery of this and so that's you know that's kind of where you're you're executing on what you've developed um and that's where you know you might use some tools like interviews or surveys or different
jordan_zezza (20:04.66)
things like that but once again you know they're not necessarily focused on you know quantifiable metrics in a way it's more so you're trying to assess the fluffy stuff in a way right you're trying to assess the human experience the things that are tougher to quantify and like I said there's a lot of different methods if you kind of go to those different resources um you know too many for me to name at once but there's a lot of different methods in a
angela_r_howard (20:21.379)
hm
angela_r_howard (20:33.899)
yeah
jordan_zezza (20:34.74)
He kind of doing some of those things when you want to approach a problem using that double diamond framework
angela_r_howard (20:41.799)
yeah one of my favorite tools is the use of personas or you know avatars and that provides you with a multi-layered dimensional perspective because you know we are diverse people right even with that baggage claim example you may have different personas you may have the person who is in a rush and needs to get home you may have the person who has a little bit of extra time
jordan_zezza (20:47.78)
yeah
jordan_zezza (20:58.5)
m hm
angela_r_howard (21:11.539)
and you may have the person who just got off a flight and is uh you know going through something now there are so many ways to kind of break down personas to understand how can you create options and choices for people during that experience um and that's you know one of my favorite tools when it comes to diversity inclusion perspective to from an employ experience perspective
jordan_zezza (21:36.14)
absolutely yeah and you know I think I think where you know where we start to use center design to and a more unique kind of a place where it's not a process improvement are not like a product development you know like I mentioned one of the things that are kind of a pillar that I've you know kind of carved out for my team is you know under we kind of have our strategy operations and pro
angela_r_howard (21:48.159)
hm
jordan_zezza (22:05.94)
jac management but within the strategy, you know one of our strategic pillars is the people in culture right how do we create a team up with this you know we have a newly created function data sciences this is a really hot topic in pretty much any industry we use data science in an I to do you know pretty much everything and so all these new teams are forming you know I think what we want to make sure that
angela_r_howard (22:14.219)
m
jordan_zezza (22:36.12)
build is a team that's worth joining and a team that people want to stay a part of there's a lot of work and it's you know like I said this has been kind of the busiest month of my career so far right and it's you know we have to realize too that you know these are an organization as you talk about a lot in the podcast right an organization isn't just an institution or a team just isn't this functional unit right it's a group of people
angela_r_howard (22:48.999)
hm
jordan_zezza (23:06.26)
right and that's kind of the way that you know we want to look at it and so that's why we've kind of called out and instilled this like you know people in the culture we're a small team of you know ten or thirteen people or so it's a smaller team but when other people are looking from the outside and what do we want to be known as and then when we look at ourselves what do we want to be known for and so you know we're kind of using a human center design framework
angela_r_howard (23:26.879)
hm
jordan_zezza (23:36.22)
and approaches to trying to create that and it's hard because it's really hard to just write that down in a sentence or a couple of sentences but center design kind of forces us to and it helps us kind of create like what is the internal identity that we want and what is the brand we want to create to be known for and so that's kind of a key pillar in our strategy that's you know definitely
angela_r_howard (23:59.739)
hm
jordan_zezza (24:06.14)
grounded in center design and once again trying to bring that to places where it hasn't always been used um and you know at least not that I've seen so far in my shorter career I would say yeah
angela_r_howard (24:14.819)
m
angela_r_howard (24:19.659)
um well I have to ask because you know you're working with data scientists neuroscientists you know very logical thinkers when it comes to these things what are some tactics as a leader as an integrator of human center design how do you get people to adopt this they look at it as the fuzzy stuff or you know maybe not as data-driven as they would like
jordan_zezza (24:27.14)
sure
jordan_zezza (24:30.44)
yes
jordan_zezza (24:41.46)
yeah
jordan_zezza (24:48.96)
yeah you know actually um I think it's a little bit easier than you might think because I actually from my experience you know I kind of went in thinking one thing and that was that you know yeah these people are very quantitatively driven and you know it's kind of you know this causes that or we're saying this is statistically significant because of x y and z m and so yes
angela_r_howard (24:54.979)
okay
angela_r_howard (25:15.459)
m hm
jordan_zezza (25:18.94)
I kind of thought maybe some of the fluff your stuff would be a little bit more challenging to kind of adopt but what I found is when we started to introduce center design and tools like murals and virtual whiteboards virtual collaboration spaces and we started to talk about things that were a little bit more fluffy and idea generation and kind of trying to create a funnel where we know we ask a bunch of provocative questions that will get a bunch of ideas out there and then we funnel them down to a really
great action plan for a particular topic like you know a data science initiative or something like people in culture and communications and things like that what I found is they enjoy it like when I know when I one of the things I like to do when I facilitate a human center design focused exercise is you know it always kind of prompts you to start with a check-in so how are people doing how are people feeling and I'll never forget the very first
angela_r_howard (25:51.819)
m
angela_r_howard (26:14.819)
m
jordan_zezza (26:19.undefined)
um kind of h c d focus session that I did with the current team um you know I remember there were a few people that were like we feel now you could put an emoji next to your name and they were like we feel tired and you know we're kind of still waking up it was earlier in the morning and then you know we had a little check out at the end of our you know we kind of did a little brainstorming activity and things like that and we had a little like the kind of check out session where you know there was like a
angela_r_howard (26:43.319)
m
jordan_zezza (26:49.08)
like world Farrell doing the like this versus someone kind of like slumped over like how do you feel should we you know use more of this type of technique and tool you know going forward and almost everyone was like ah we need like we need this we need more of this is this is the stuff we need to talk about and you know I think you know when we worked with you I think you saw that too where you know people weren't afraid to speak their mind people weren't afraid to speak up and people want to talk about you know people
angela_r_howard (26:50.879)
yeah
jordan_zezza (27:18.76)
want to talk about culture and workplace satisfaction and you know the really kind of fluffy stuff that sometimes goes unnoticed or is tough to quantify um but it's really important to everyone including data scientists who are passionate about it so you know I was pleasantly surprised that it was pretty easy to integrate honestly because people wanted to use it and now we've used it a ton
angela_r_howard (27:31.019)
m
angela_r_howard (27:45.739)
hm
jordan_zezza (27:48.8)
um so it's it's been great yeah
angela_r_howard (27:52.319)
yeah and you know I know we call it fluffy and you know these soft skills but I always say they are the hardest of all the skills because you're working with sure there are concepts there tools frameworks that we know from psychology sociology anthropology neuroscience like all these disciplines mixed into one around what drives human behavior and there's research right there's data behind these things these are not actions or
jordan_zezza (27:55.86)
sure
jordan_zezza (28:17.6)
you can
angela_r_howard (28:22.179)
works that are just m they focused on how to learn which is social learning they focus omotivatesotivate humans things like autonomy and empowerment and having a sense of purpose these are all things researched so I think sometimes people do I mean yes we we don't have this kind of one to one significant correlation there's never really a correlation with the work that we do but we do know some of the concept
are factors that drive certain behavior and it's kind of a flywheel right there are a lot of different factors that can be built in so um so yeah I'm glad to hear that your team took the bull by the horns and you know I witnessed that when working with your team and it was refreshing because again I just look at this team in particular that you're working with and the impact that they're going to make on the
jordan_zezza (29:08.undefined)
yeah
angela_r_howard (29:22.579)
the condition of neuroscience and the products and the services and the um really the cures in some cases when it comes to the brain lately phenomenal that you know you and I both had a hand in some of that fulfilling for me at least
jordan_zezza (29:35.42)
hm
jordan_zezza (29:39.78)
yeah
jordan_zezza (29:44.3)
yeah no absolutely and I think the team the team and like I said the team enjoyed that session all the feedback that I would get needs we need more of this we need to talk about this more we need to you know to make sure and like we said I think we have I've experienced a lot of radical radical candor in our day to day right and so I think you know we have a team that's passionate about you know people and culture and
angela_r_howard (29:57.759)
hm
angela_r_howard (30:06.579)
hm
jordan_zezza (30:14.08)
you know it's been you know I know you've talked about this a lot on the podcast but being in the virtual world you know we're starting to get back to work but you know even so the team that you know I'm on we're so decentralized we have people in you know over in Europe we have people scattered throughout the united states so even if we do go back to this kind of in the office you know model it will still be relatively virtual for us because we are a very decentralized team
angela_r_howard (30:19.239)
hm
jordan_zezza (30:44.I)
I think one thing I've noticed just from the pandemic is I came from a team that was so centered on the culture I mean we talked nonstop on stop and what type of culture they wanted to build and we talked a lot about professional development multiple team members that were dedicated specifically to culture and onboarding and just making sure that people had that psychological safety and it was
angela_r_howard (30:56.519)
m
jordan_zezza (31:14.24)
really awesome to see um and see a team that's been experienced with doing that right for a very long time um and then you know you kind of come to a team that's newly formed there were like three or four people that have been around for a long time um and then you know most of us were new from outside of the organization and so it was tough to kind of build a culture in a virtual world and it's still I mean it's still
tough to do that right because we're not kind of you know we talked about what you here see feel taste touch like you know you're only seeing and hearing those people but not even in the same room right and so it's it is it's tough to kind of build a culture in a virtual world and I know i know you've talked about that a lot but I think what's helped us is this human center design know frameworks and tools and technologies that support
angela_r_howard (31:52.319)
hm
angela_r_howard (31:56.979)
right
jordan_zezza (32:14.12)
you know that problem-solving approach to not just a process but to people in culture and how we kind of communicate and interact and what we want to be known for and all that good stuff so um yeah
angela_r_howard (32:28.29I)
you i think it takes a whole another level of human center design to think about this in the context of a distributed workforce because you know working virtually works but it takes a whole different leadership style and uh ways of doing things and the ing to a similar outcome that you just have to be intentional about which is what I think human center desirably all about it's really about focusing on again the experience the tools the frameworks
that helps us get to outcomes that equal things like you know a more inclusive culture better performance psychological safety all those things that we mentioned before
jordan_zezza (33:09.4)
absolutely
angela_r_howard (33:12.859)
so just to tie the bow on this topic i feel like we could certainly go in many different directions but I first and foremost appreciate this conversation because a lot of guests we have on we have wonderful guests who are making you know kind of big contributions in the areas of uh you know workplace human center design and it's also good to hear like from a leadership perspective just the like very specific applic
jordan_zezza (33:19.undefined)
sure
angela_r_howard (33:42.539)
the action of what this means for a team so someone who's in the trenches someone who is working with a team on improving and moving some of these concepts forward so is there any last thoughts or anything else that you want to provide the audience for people who are thinking about introducing human center design with their teams that could be helpful
jordan_zezza (34:04.82)
yeah you know I think you know I think piously covered a lot I mean hopefully you know you know the kind of message that I wanted to convey today is that your human center design is not just for the applications that are being leveraged in you know for an apple product or for you know for I phone product or something right or a process you know human center design can be used in different places and it kind of just it take
angela_r_howard (34:27.138)
right hm
jordan_zezza (34:34.78)
some creativity to see kind of where that that you know could take place but I would encourage people to kind of go to the resources that I named earlier that design kid dot organ you know to check out Luma Institute there a big human design-focused organization and um you know like I said great tool to just start exploring some of the frameworks and the great job of kind of outlining how you can start to facilitate um you know some of these sessions and leveraging some of the good and you know then you could kind of get into the combining of different thin start to even innovate with what human center design can look like in what you can use it Ior so I would say there's probably a wide variety of applications for it Im and I would say that it's just so critical um you know to create human-centered-entered workforce like you know like you've talked about so much it's just so critic rating create that human center of work for us
angela_r_howard (35:31.239)
hm
jordan_zezza (35:35.12)
because at the end of, the day it is you know people driving this change and not you know these large institutions it's people on the ground and in the trenches doing it so um would each leap look at look for human center design and you know I would say check it out and see if it's applicable in your organization i'I'mure I'm sure it is
angela_r_howard (35:41.859)
yes
angela_r_howard (35:58.539)
awesome yeah and we'll include some of the links that you mentioned here so that can check out some tools again you know there's a variety of tools that you can start to incorporate but I think the first step is the mindset shift on how we're approaching the work human-centered-entered perspective that is just utilizing the tools is not helpfully have to have the mindset shift to go along with Jordan appreciate your time and sharing
jordan_zezza (36:02.84)
sure
jordan_zezza (36:13.3)
hm
angela_r_howard (36:28.859)
your perspective and I just love how you've kind of brought together some of your experience and how you're leveraging that within your team so thank you for sharing
jordan_zezza (36:37.3)
thanks for having me on Angela
