Highly Sensitive Leadership with Heather Dominick-Kosmicki
angela_howard (00:01.698)
Hello, Heather. Welcome to Humanly Possible. Thank you so much for joining. I'm so honored that you are taking the time to chat with me and chat with our audience today.
heather_ (00:13.201)
I am so happy to be here Angela, and I am just really, really looking forward to our conversation.
angela_howard (00:18.39)
Yay, awesome. Well, you know, I'm just I'm so intrigued. And this is one of the reasons why I wanted to get you on the podcast because you and I'll let you do an introduction, but you have such a unique perspective around leadership and entrepreneurship, and what that means and kind of redefining the standards or the definition of leadership that we have all come accustomed to perhaps.
And so tell us a little bit about yourself, your background and what makes you human.
heather_ (00:53.045)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, I love that. I love that question. So I will try to keep it as succinct as possible and let you just ask any further, you know, fun digging questions, but...
I think probably what's important at this time to speak about in regards to myself is I have been self-employed for almost 20 years now and I came into the world of self-employment from actually being a public high school teacher. So I was a high school English and drama teacher in my previous life and I share that because
angela_howard (01:27.381)
Mmm.
heather_ (01:38.445)
I think it's valuable to emphasize that I did not have.
like a standard business background or marketing background. I really had no idea what I was doing and threw myself into a deep, deep learning curve, a self-taught learning curve, and really just had a calling. Like I just felt like I was meant to be doing something beyond the traditional classroom,
angela_howard (02:04.654)
Hmm.
heather_ (02:12.275)
I loved my students deeply and the work that I was doing. I felt very confined by the system. And so that was more than anything, the primary attraction to being self-employed for myself.
angela_howard (02:19.73)
Mm.
heather_ (02:30.385)
Those first few years were quite a shock. And definitely, I could even say traumatic in a lot of ways. But I learned so much and I am now so, so incredibly grateful for the work that I get to do every single day, the life that I get to live, the way that my work impacts my life and that my life is able to impact my work.
angela_howard (02:38.801)
Mmm.
heather_ (02:57.713)
So I share all of that in answer to that question of what makes me human. And I really bring it back to the ability to be creative. And I see that as such a core.
angela_howard (03:09.206)
Mm-hmm.
heather_ (03:15.489)
value to what it means to be self-employed. And in the language of my work, what it means to be a highly sensitive entrepreneur and also a highly sensitive leader that I get to design and create on a day-to-day basis is what makes me human.
angela_howard (03:39.358)
I love that, I love that. And being self-employed, I'm kind of on the journey, the early years, as you said, which were like traumatic. I feel that comment that you just said. So, but what a vulnerable place to be in where you could share, vulnerable in the best way possible to share your experiences and...
heather_ (03:50.929)
Thank you.
angela_howard (04:04.738)
So I'm curious to know, tell us a little bit more about what it means to be a highly sensitive entrepreneur, intrapreneur, leader as a whole, what does that mean?
heather_ (04:15.689)
Yeah, for sure. So I think to answer that, I'll speak to both from.
of like my personal experience and then also more of like the technical or clinical experience if you will. And so the personal is that when I first started my self-employed journey I did not know that I was highly sensitive. And so those first few years like we were talking about and really it was like the first seven because I realized I was self-employed, excuse me, I realized I was
around 2010 and those first seven years were you know for sure a challenge. It came with all the challenges that come with starting on a self-employed journey doubly so for myself because again I didn't understand that I was highly sensitive. So around 2010 I hit a real significant income generation mark and
heather_ (05:22.665)
been engaging in trainings, like business trainings and business programs that really all focused on.
making that certain amount of money. And so when I made that certain amount of money, I was extremely disappointed that my life was not like this golden, you know, world of rainbows and unicorns. It was literally the opposite. I was completely overworked. I was over exhausted. I was massively overwhelmed. And I definitely plunged into
angela_howard (05:43.028)
Mmm.
heather_ (06:03.299)
a dark night of the soul and was really questioning. Like, oh my God, like if this is what it means to be successfully self-employed, like I just don't know if this is for me and if this isn't for me, then what is for me because I don't think I'm supposed to go back to the traditional classroom. And it was a really, really difficult time that.
I really dealt with by diving into deep inquiry around those questions. And it was all of that led me to hear for the first time the term highly sensitive. And at that time, I had never heard that term before. I didn't know what it meant. But as I dove into learning what it meant, suddenly things started to really make sense for me. And I started realizing, oh, this is why.
angela_howard (06:50.198)
Hmm.
heather_ (06:56.367)
I am experiencing this level of challenge and difficulty because the way that I'm going about doing everything that I'm doing in my business is a total mismatch for how my nervous system is wired. So that's really the personal piece. The more technical piece of what does it mean to be highly sensitive. So again, that phrase is not something that is developed or designed by me. It comes out of some deep psychological research.
that really began primarily in the mid 1990s. There's lots of research on what it means to be highly sensitive. One psychologist and researcher who is most known is Dr. Elaine Aaron and she's most known because she wrote a very layman
interpretation book, the highly sensitive person. And in short, what it means to be highly sensitive is that your nervous system is wired to take in stimulation at a much higher degree than someone who is not highly sensitive. So that stimulation could be anything from sight, sounds, smells, touch, energy, information.
angela_howard (08:05.803)
Mm.
heather_ (08:14.877)
And when your nervous system is wired to take in stimulation at a much higher degree, it does make a difference in terms of how you process and how you relate with the world. And there's many degrees to that impact, but in short, one of the primary symptoms of
being what I like to refer to as an untrained, highly sensitive, is that you experience significant physiological overwhelm. And I always emphasize the physiological because the term overwhelm is used so much for so many of us at this particular time that we're all living through on the planet. But it goes beyond.
angela_howard (08:50.955)
Hmm.
angela_howard (09:04.295)
Yes.
heather_ (09:07.369)
the to-do list, the never ending to-do list, it goes beyond multitasking. For those of us who are highly sensitive, there's literally a flooding of the nervous system that takes place and that happens when you are in that space of overstimulation. So the work that I do is for those of us who are highly sensitive, who feel called to be self-employed. And if you're called to be self-employed, that is a very overwhelming experience.
dose of overwhelm and by learning how to manage your nervous system that sets you up to be able to be successful in an arena such as self-employment and then also to really enter into a space of leadership. Because as a person who's highly sensitive, if you feel called to not only be self-employed
angela_howard (09:38.908)
Mm.
heather_ (10:07.926)
then you must learn how to first be leader of yourself.
angela_howard (10:12.207)
Mm.
heather_ (10:13.073)
And then to be able to use the gifts that you're given as a person who's highly sensitive to lead others through your highly sensitive strengths, and then to be able to contribute to leadership in the world in a very different way than leadership is considered stereotypically. So very long answer, but that is the heart of what it is to be highly sensitive, to be a highly sensitive entrepreneur, and to be a highly sensitive leader.
angela_howard (10:43.826)
Yeah, and that's, you know, you kind of ended there with a little bit of nugget that I want to dig into, which is this comparison of how a highly sensitive leader, someone who, you know, needs to think through and process things differently, and the impact of that on kind of our traditional definition of leadership. So what do you, what do you see as some of the mismatch?
mismatched constructs between those two things.
heather_ (11:17.549)
Mm-hmm. Yes. Well, I think I would speak to that from two different perspectives. So the first perspective is that, you know, there is a psychological theory of the four leadership powers. And the four leadership powers speak to leadership over or power over.
and then leadership to or power to, and then leadership with and leadership within. And I find that construct very helpful and supportive just as a reminder that whether a person's highly sensitive or not, they're actually already exists.
angela_howard (12:06.19)
Mm-hmm.
heather_ (12:06.845)
various forms of leadership outside of the more stereotypically connected definition of leadership over. Right? Leadership over is where you have that one person who's like at the top of the pyramid, right? And they dominate and they tend to quote unquote lead through fear.
angela_howard (12:16.778)
Mm hmm.
heather_ (12:32.233)
Lead through fear, lead through scarcity, lead through, you know, really creating...
dire consequences, using threats, and those are just some examples. When you look at leadership to leadership with and leadership within, it's actually much more of a collaborative approach to leadership. And without taking the time to go into what those other three really consist of, what I'll say is that those do point to how those of us who are highly sensitive, truly
are positioned and naturally coded to be leaders. So from that perspective, this is where I like to speak to, I've developed in my work what I refer to as our top 12 highly sensitive shadows, and then our top 12 highly sensitive strengths. So we already spoke about one of the predominant shadows, which is overwhelm.
angela_howard (13:28.822)
Mm.
heather_ (13:40.553)
But then we take a moment to look at what being highly sensitive gives you access to in terms of strengths. Now, out of those top 12, three that tend to really rise to the top and be very, very supportive of both being an entrepreneur as well as being a leader, are the strengths of intuition, the strengths of empathy, and the strengths of deep listening.
angela_howard (14:00.888)
Hmm.
heather_ (14:08.389)
And so when you start to connect into those strengths and you start to even consider the possibility of like, oh, what would it be like to very intentionally and proactively.
lead through intuition, empathy, and deep listening. And you can probably even begin to make the connections for yourself, right? And to see like, oh, that really would lend to that ability to lead with, right? Or that ability to lead to meaning to be able to empower others.
angela_howard (14:38.55)
Hmm.
heather_ (14:46.141)
right, to be able to understand the varying strengths or skills that a group of people have to provide to go beyond and out of the box thinking and approaching creative solutions, projects, you know, overall end goals, lots of varieties in terms of how that approach to leadership can be really, really effective.
require is, at least for the highly sensitive, it does require that leadership within, where you have to first be able to really manage yourself, right? And again, this is where I use the term trained and untrained. For many of us who are highly sensitive, nobody taught us how to really work with our nervous system differently, so we tend to live in the shadow side of what it means to be highly sensitive.
angela_howard (15:24.255)
Yes.
angela_howard (15:40.084)
Hmm.
heather_ (15:45.995)
to those strengths when you need them, when you want them, when you want to really put them to use and to serve us, then everything changes and it really becomes an entirely different experience of leadership.
angela_howard (16:00.362)
Yeah, no, that's a wonderful, I think you mentioned a few things there. One is the kind of those levels of leadership, the transformative versus the transactional, which is kind of how I conceptualize that. And then the thought that the highly sensitive leader is actually on that transformational side of leadership, which research tells us that
That is actually a better, more effective method to the bottom line of business, but also to the health and the wellbeing of the people that you're serving.
heather_ (16:39.217)
Yes, 100%. That's right.
angela_howard (16:42.402)
So how does one, so let me ask you this, maybe taking a step back, what causes someone to be a highly sensitive leader? Is it coded in us? Is it temperament? What's your thought or do you have any theory as to why someone might develop into or have it in their being to be highly sensitive?
heather_ (17:05.333)
Such a great question. So it's so interesting because the highly sensitive research shows that there's 20% of us who are born into the world highly sensitive. So I think that's a really valuable statistic to start with. One, because I always like to say, it's not something your parents did to you. Right? Or you didn't pick it up.
angela_howard (17:30.241)
A lot of other things our parents did to us about this one.
heather_ (17:33.392)
Okay.
or you didn't pick it up somewhere, it's not because of that weird party you went to in college. It's just literally how we are born into the world. Yet, 20% of us, so I speak to that because as highly sensitive, again, especially when we're untrained, we tend to have the experience of being the odd one out or that there's something wrong with us. And really that just becomes just about percentage.
angela_howard (17:36.757)
Yeah.
angela_howard (17:41.262)
Mm.
Mm.
heather_ (18:04.055)
is not highly sensitive, the majority of the world is going to be designed for those of those who are not highly sensitive. So from the 20 percent, I don't have research on this, but I would say that there's for sure a smaller percentage of that 20 percent who feel called to take on some massive endeavors such as self-employment, right? And you know, and the way that I typically speak to that,
angela_howard (18:26.548)
Hmm.
heather_ (18:33.401)
any official research or numbers to back it up is that it's just a deep calling for those of us who really do hear that call of service and are committed to the process of self-empowerment and self-growth.
angela_howard (18:39.927)
Hmm.
heather_ (18:55.389)
that kind of dovetails with something else that I say all the time when it comes to being an entrepreneur, which is that if you want a fast track to personal growth, start a business. Because all of your stuff is going to come right up and it's going to be in your face and you're going to be asked to face it and to change it.
angela_howard (19:07.248)
Yes!
angela_howard (19:17.406)
Yes.
angela_howard (19:22.21)
Mm-hmm.
heather_ (19:25.041)
So I would, you know, again, without any numbers to back it up, I would say for those of us who feel called to self-employment, who feel called to leadership as a person who is highly sensitive, it is because there is that call to a commitment of continued self-growth and betterment. And as a result of self-growth and betterment, a commitment to service. And that does really come
sensitive and according to Dr. Erin's work she refers to those of us who are highly sensitive as the royal advisors of the world. That because of the unique set of strengths that we possess we are naturally of service in that way. We tend to be excellent coaches, we tend to be excellent therapists, we tend to be the
angela_howard (20:03.362)
Hmm.
angela_howard (20:12.674)
Hmm.
heather_ (20:25.315)
very high integrity service providers. So in my work, which I've now been serving highly sensitive entrepreneurs and leaders for over 10 years, I've never met a highly sensitive whose business is like selling widgets, right? The business is always about being of service to others. Now, again, I don't have any research to back this up, but I would imagine that somewhere within each
angela_howard (20:29.717)
Mm.
angela_howard (20:41.419)
Interesting.
angela_howard (20:45.934)
Hmm.
heather_ (20:55.135)
who feel called to entrepreneurship or feel called to leadership. There's something in each person's personal history that lends to that, right? And it might be...
angela_howard (21:04.645)
Hmm.
heather_ (21:08.165)
anything from overcoming a massive trauma for oneself and then feeling the call to pay it forward to others or on the opposite end of the spectrum might possibly be a highly sensitive, had the unique experience of really being fostered and really provided for in their parenting to really encourage them to be out in the world and fly.
angela_howard (21:33.585)
Mm.
heather_ (21:38.037)
So again, back to no numbers, but I know that it is a small percentage of that 20% because there's a lot of highly sensitives who also feel very stuck in the shadow side. And if you are stuck in that shadow side, it makes it not only difficult, but I would say nearly impossible to be able to succeed in regards to, again, entrepreneurship or leadership in any way.
angela_howard (21:56.177)
Mm.
angela_howard (22:03.05)
Yeah, and you mentioned the idea of overcoming or, you know, coming on the other side of a traumatic event, perhaps, and all of us, every single one of us in the world. Right now, I think we are on hopefully on the other side of a pretty traumatic few years with the pandemic. Variety of other social issues. Do you think, I mean, is your theory that we are kind of like
creating, like with the pressing of the coals or whatever, the pressure is on for some, like creating more highly sensitive leaders or at least people realizing that they're highly sensitive leaders. What's your thought on the impact of these traumatic events to highly sensitive leadership?
heather_ (22:51.197)
Yeah, I so appreciate that. I do really see a correlation. I do. And, you know, in those early days of the pandemic, it really became clear to me that the quickening was occurring. That we had
angela_howard (23:05.454)
Mm.
heather_ (23:09.521)
you know, unbeknownst to any of us, we had the luxury pre-pandemic to kind of like take our time, you know, and like, and I would see a lot of members, you know, in my highly sensitive leadership training programs, and they were going through the process and they were definitely doing the work, but there was, you know, often like a real wallowing, right, or like, oh.
angela_howard (23:33.652)
Mm.
heather_ (23:35.369)
to like really dive in and I have to journal about this for 100 days before I take any action. And like we could have kind of all get away with that, right? It's like work was happening, but it was happening at like a snail's pace compared to the pandemic hit. And it was like a real awakening. Definitely again, for those that I know I was who were
angela_howard (23:47.062)
Mm.
angela_howard (23:52.642)
Hmm.
heather_ (24:05.583)
is we all have this opportunity for an awakening right now. It's a real kind of sit up moment, right? Which is like, wait a minute, what do I really believe in? Wait a minute, what are my values? Wait a minute, what do I stand for? And wait a minute, are my actions aligning with that? And we don't have time to waste here. So let's get going.
angela_howard (24:10.946)
Mm.
angela_howard (24:14.547)
Yes.
angela_howard (24:25.002)
Hmm.
heather_ (24:35.623)
I do feel that there has been a larger collective call for those of us who are highly sensitive to stop hanging out in the background, you know, which we again could kind of get away with pre-pandemic and was definitely the easier place to be.
angela_howard (24:44.846)
Hmm.
heather_ (24:53.169)
let the louder people, you know, let them lead the way. And I'll just kind of like watch, you know, in the back of the auditorium, if you will. And, ooh, I have an idea of how such and such could be done better, but ooh, I don't really wanna speak up because, oh, then I might have to, you know, experience conflict or have a difficult conversation or somebody will be louder than me and then I'll just, you know, feel shut down. And now it's like...
angela_howard (24:58.67)
Mm.
angela_howard (25:13.538)
Hmm.
angela_howard (25:23.586)
We do have a choice.
heather_ (25:25.63)
No, like, you know, we have a different view and it's a valuable view.
angela_howard (25:30.734)
Mm-hmm.
heather_ (25:32.473)
And we need to not only find our voices, but know our voices and use our voices and bring the unique perspective of that royal advisor service to the world. And that's what's going to make a difference. Because the Loud Ones, they weren't doing such a great job pre-pandemic. But again, we kind of could all get away with it, even if we knew deep in our hearts,
angela_howard (25:53.258)
I'm going to go to bed.
heather_ (26:02.933)
Now it's really not right.
angela_howard (26:05.17)
Yeah, and you know, it kind of just gets me to my next question, which is, you know, kind of back to my original question around redefining leadership. And, you know, and this points to diversity and inclusion a bit because you have to foster, you know, because I work mainly with leaders within workplaces, right? You're working with entrepreneurs, but the connection here I think is
you know, there's gotta be someone who has to lead the leader sometimes. And sometimes we have to, you know, foster and grow, it sounds like, from your perspective, we have to foster this idea of being a highly sensitive leader, embracing it, understanding self, but also, you know, so what does this, I guess what I'm getting at is what does the support for a highly sensitive leader look like, especially those who maybe work within organizations or are part of a team or part of a community? How do you...
foster the um it was a shadow and the what was the other side the strength so how do you foster the strength those 12 strengths
heather_ (27:09.377)
Great.
heather_ (27:12.593)
Yeah, for sure. Well, first of all, I'll say that the work that you're doing is so important, valuable, and very much needed. And I would say that the highly sensitive aspect of that inclusivity.
angela_howard (27:28.113)
Mm-hmm.
heather_ (27:29.857)
it is for sure something that will be of support for organizations going forward. And I think it goes back to those four quadrants of leadership, right? And that, I don't know, I'll be surprised, shocked, probably primarily disappointed if we come out of this pandemic and we just revert back to the old style of core.
angela_howard (27:34.862)
Mm.
angela_howard (27:50.752)
Mm.
heather_ (27:58.621)
leadership, right? That's going to be a real, real sad day if that's where we end up because, again, things are really, in my opinion, meant to be done differently.
angela_howard (28:02.906)
Yes.
heather_ (28:10.181)
including like who are the highly sensitives within each organization, right, within each corporation, within each association, and what's being done to call on the unique perspective that they have rather than insisting that everyone in the corporation should look and behave and act the same.
angela_howard (28:17.688)
Mm-hmm.
angela_howard (28:34.234)
Hmm.
heather_ (28:35.249)
and then therefore do their work the same. And there's so many highly-sensitives who are really struggling because they are that 20% and they don't necessarily approach their work the way everybody else in the corporation approaches their work, but that doesn't mean that, actually, if they were allowed to do it in a way that was more conducive to their processing, that it wouldn't get done or even get done better.
Right? So along those lines then, you know, to the question of the fostering of those strengths, whether you are in a corporation, whether you're an entrepreneur or somewhere in between. The first and foremost is that you really give yourself permission to know who you are and to accept that.
angela_howard (29:14.466)
Mm-hmm.
angela_howard (29:24.398)
Mm.
heather_ (29:28.253)
you do process the world differently. And as part of that acceptance to acknowledge that doesn't mean that it's wrong.
And that is so key because again, when you're looking at 20% versus 80% and the majority of us, again, we're not raised, we're not taught like, hey, really embrace yourself as a person who's highly sensitive. We all went to school, we all know that there was one way that you were really supposed to dot your I's, cross your T's in order to get the A.
angela_howard (29:54.759)
Mm.
heather_ (30:07.951)
of really getting to know yourself and then to value yourself and then from there to learn how to express yourself.
angela_howard (30:15.662)
Mm.
heather_ (30:16.969)
that position of strengths. But you have to know what those strengths are first, right? And then you also have to be willing to give value to them. It's like, oh wait, just because I don't necessarily process as quickly as someone who's not highly sensitive, that doesn't mean that the end result that I come to is any less than. I know that even before I knew that I was highly sensitive, and like I mentioned earlier,
angela_howard (30:21.39)
Sure.
heather_ (30:47.043)
I would be part of masterminds and things like that. I would often get the feedback of, Heather doesn't often have anything to say, but when she speaks, you better shut up and listen. Ha ha ha.
angela_howard (30:48.971)
Mm-hmm.
angela_howard (30:57.142)
Hmm.
angela_howard (31:01.126)
Yes.
heather_ (31:01.353)
And I would get that feedback and again, I didn't even know I was highly sensitive and then I started to realize oh Knowing that I was highly sensitive. That's why because I was taking in right everything that was happening And then being able to put it through my highly sensitive filter and then I would come out with like these, you know profound statements
angela_howard (31:21.026)
Hmm. Well, that's such a good example, you know, I mean, because if people are listening now, you know, which, you know, we've got entrepreneur or C-suite leaders. And so, you're like for me as a leader, even though I'm, you know, I'm also leading other people. So I wanna kind of start thinking about what are the behaviors that I should be looking for, you know, to know if someone's highly sensitive or not.
And again, we just, we were talking earlier, you know, we lean so heavily towards like the extroverted charismatic leader who's always speaking up in meetings. That is our persona of leadership. And so I think checking our biases to say, you know, what does contribution even look like? Because contribution is not always the loudest person in the room. You could say a lot of garbage and it means nothing, but...
heather_ (31:47.678)
Yes.
angela_howard (32:16.578)
to maybe the introvert or the highly sensitive leader, taking the time to process, digest, connect the dots. I mean, the value of that deep thinking is just so important for business.
heather_ (32:30.241)
Absolutely, for sure. So, in terms of checking the boxes, right, is just starting to pay attention to how does stimulation impact you, right? Are you the person who goes, walks into a room and immediately can assess what's needed for the environment to be conducive for whatever event is happening?
angela_howard (32:41.954)
Mm-hmm.
heather_ (32:57.481)
The highly sensitive is going to notice the lights are too bright. It's too cold, right? These chairs are uncomfortable. The microphone is too loud. And so you can start to just pay attention to literally like, what are you noticing?
angela_howard (33:15.768)
Hmm.
heather_ (33:17.782)
And what are you specifically noticing in regards to details because we tend to be very detail oriented And are you just shaming yourself like?
you know, for noticing those details, like why do I pick that up or get distracted, or why does that matter to me? Oh, I'm so annoyed that I need a sweater, or nobody else does, or God, what's wrong with me? I should be able to sit in this restaurant and not be annoyed that I can't even hear the people at the table talking to me. And instead, rather than shaming and blaming yourself, start to pay attention to what just naturally comes into your filter.
angela_howard (33:57.105)
Mm.
heather_ (33:57.341)
Right? And so if you do notice, they start to notice that you're having an experience of being able to really clock that stimulation, that's part of the process of getting to know yourself, as I was talking about earlier. And the next part is to start to ask some inquiry questions in regards to how is this of value.
angela_howard (34:10.702)
Mm-hmm.
heather_ (34:19.593)
So how is it of value to pay attention to an environment? Well, environment contributes greatly to people being able to learn and people being able to create. If you start to flip all of those, you know, preconceived notions, right, or you start to flip all of those previous prejudices, you start to ask, well, what's on the other side of that?
angela_howard (34:26.068)
Mm-hmm.
angela_howard (34:43.561)
Mm.
heather_ (34:47.721)
Right? So why would a corporate boardroom or meeting room be sterile and bland?
Who is that benefiting? What's that value? And then what might it be like otherwise, right? So, and this is far from unique, right? We're not the first ones to do this, or we're not the first ones to start to have this conversation. You've got Google, you've got Apple. Like this is a conversation that has started, but where is it meant to be taking place within yourself, and then within the groups, or again, the organizations, or environments that you contribute to?
angela_howard (35:11.31)
Mm-hmm.
heather_ (35:25.987)
So then that's that value piece. And then the next piece, which is the express piece, which tends to be the most challenging, right, is to start to learn to give voice to that. So that might, for example, start with just a one-on-one conversation, right? So maybe you go to someone that you're working on a project with, or you go to a manager, or you go to a VP, and you say, I'd like to have a conversation with you about what I'm seeing.
angela_howard (35:41.537)
Mm.
angela_howard (35:54.499)
Mm.
heather_ (35:55.369)
I'd like to have a conversation with you about what I have to contribute in a way that's different than how the majority of everybody else on the team is contributing. Would you be willing to have that conversation? And that express piece is the key.
right, because we need to be our own advocates, we need to be our own spokespersons, if you will, and that is part of that highly sensitive leadership and being willing to take a stand for the value that you have to offer by knowing the unique perspective that you bring and the benefit of that perspective.
angela_howard (36:25.491)
Mm hmm.
angela_howard (36:35.518)
Yeah, and I think there's a, I love the point around express because, you know, the folks that you're coaching, for example, you're really teaching them to do that, to be able to speak up and advocate for themselves. But I think, you know, for folks who either don't know they're highly sensitive yet, or they don't feel comfortable, you know, I really can't help but think that the workplace has a contribution to this conversation because
if you're not psychologically safe to even express yourself, that's an issue, that's a cultural issue, that's an issue of not creating a culture of inclusion and belonging for highly sensitive leaders or highly sensitive people within your organization. And so, I do think there is an element of, we gotta get our own advocates, but how do we also hold some accountability to the leaders in a workplace or...
heather_ (37:07.552)
Yes.
angela_howard (37:32.246)
the culture of a workplace, the environment, the climate of a workplace to be able to even comfortably bring yourself to express those perspectives.
heather_ (37:40.381)
Yes, for sure. Absolutely. No doubt. But that is part of the leadership conversation. Right. So it has to start somewhere. And, you know, one of the things that I share with those that I mentor quite frequently is that we are pioneers. And then I remind them of other pioneers, right, such as they're used to not even be women in the workplace. Right.
angela_howard (37:47.074)
Yeah.
angela_howard (37:50.923)
Yes.
angela_howard (37:59.926)
Hmm.
angela_howard (38:07.67)
Yes.
heather_ (38:09.921)
example, or other people who spoke up along the way and an impacted change. So you're absolutely right, the culture within any type of environment needs to be held responsible, but if there isn't the speaking up on behalf of those of us who need that cultural change, then how is the change going to occur? And far
angela_howard (38:25.5)
Mm-hmm.
angela_howard (38:35.101)
Yes.
heather_ (38:39.895)
easy thing to do. You know, we're not going to listen to this podcast and wake up tomorrow and go, you know, storm the castle.
angela_howard (38:43.982)
Thank you.
heather_ (38:47.173)
But it does need to start with, again, a process, right, for yourself personally, and then what is the role that I am meant to play and to be willing to engage in that step by step versus, like I said, pre-pandemic, where most of the highly sensitive that I mentor was kind of waiting for somebody else, right? You know, kind of waiting for those not highly sensitive to say, oh, come welcome to our club, you know, and it's not going to happen. It's just not going to happen.
angela_howard (38:52.065)
Yes.
angela_howard (39:06.53)
Hmm.
angela_howard (39:14.1)
Yeah.
heather_ (39:18.227)
I think this is a valuable place to speak to another strength that we hold as highly sensitive which is a deep belief in justice. There tends to be a real high level of integrity and again that deep belief in justice for those of us who are highly sensitive. So we are going to see the injustice that many who are not highly sensitive are not going to see.
angela_howard (39:26.912)
Mm-hmm.
heather_ (39:44.965)
And so then again, the next step or part of many next steps is how do I move from that, what I that which I am seeing to then where I am meant to assert myself, play a role, speak up and look to be able to impact change. And, you know, that's the work. That's the work.
angela_howard (39:53.73)
Hmm.
angela_howard (40:11.254)
Yeah, well, you mentioned earlier that, you know, people aren't going to listen to this podcast and be able to do it. But, you know, I think you're a great inspiration. I think even within these last, you know, 30 minutes or so, you've provided, I think, insight around a structure, language. I think language is so key. Sometimes you just, you don't know what's, what needs to come out of your mouth to influence her, you know? And so, you know, I know working with you, there's more where that came from. So.
We will be sure to include your website in the show notes, make sure if folks wanna work with you that they have a place to do that. And I'm just so grateful for you. I'm so grateful that you took the time today. You could have been anywhere else and you've provided such great knowledge and insight. And I think the main point here is the awareness, the awareness about this concept, but also
you know, from my perspective, how do we continue to create more inclusive workplaces where people, brilliant people like this can thrive and not just survive. So I'm just, again, very grateful for having you today. Heather.
heather_ (41:22.401)
sure. Well, thank you so much. I was so excited to have this conversation because I really appreciate the work that you're doing and the space that you're creating and holding for the conversation about how to develop a different type of leadership.
and that phrase of being human-centric, and it's a conversation that needs to be had. So yeah, I just feel grateful that I got to show up and be a part of it for today. So thank you.
angela_howard (41:58.094)
Thank you, Heather, so much.
