proximity bias with brian mohr

Nov 3

angela_howard (00:01.366)

Welcome to Humanly Possible. Brian, thank you so much for joining. I am honored to have you on the show. You and I, I feel like our last conversation, we probably could have like recorded an entire podcast episode. So we're gonna try this again because we just had such a fantastic conversation. So welcome to the show, glad to have you. I'm so thrilled to be joining you, having yet another conversation, which yeah, I totally agree. I think that first one,

brian_mohr (00:22.495)

I'm so thrilled to be joining you, having yet another conversation, which yeah, totally agree. I think that first one, no doubt it was awesome and I expect nothing less on this one. So thanks for having.

angela_howard (00:31.44)

awesome and I expect nothing less on this one so thanks for having me. Yes, yes well so again thank you for joining. We have a lot to talk about today I'm sure but just tell the audience who you are, what you do professionally, but also what makes you human. Oh wow we're gonna get deep we're gonna go right into the deep end of the world. I love it, I love it. So

brian_mohr (00:50.666)

Oh wow, we're gonna get deep. We're gonna go right into the deep end of the pool. I love it, I love it. So I will introduce myself first with sharing the things that matter most in my life. I am an incredibly lucky father of two amazing teenage daughters. And that has been quite a journey. I've got two high schoolers, which is, woo, look out.

angela_howard (00:58.19)

I will introduce myself first with sharing the things that matter most in my life. I am an incredibly lucky father of two amazing teenage daughters and that has been quite a journey. I've got two high schoolers which is whoo. Oh yeah, that sounds fun. Yeah, it's something. So they, as you might imagine, are at the center of my life.

brian_mohr (01:17.074)

Yeah, it's something. So you know, they, as you might imagine, are at the center of my life. I've been married to an amazing woman for the last now 22 years. Her name is Jackie. And you know, life is great. So father husband are, you know, the roles or responsibilities that matter most to me in the entire world. And I cherish being in those roles. Outside of that.

angela_howard (01:27.984)

two years, her name's Jackie, and life is great. So father, husband are the roles or responsibilities that matter most to me in the entire world, and I cherish being in those roles. Outside of that, a couple of other things that take center stage in my life. Number one is I am a music enthusiast at my core, whether it's listening to it, seeing live music when and where I can.

brian_mohr (01:45.322)

A couple of other things that take center stage in my life. Number one is I am a music enthusiast at my core, whether it's listening to it, seeing live music when and where I can. And I have been a bit of an aspiring guitar player myself over the last handful of years, and it has brought me immense amount of joy. And then finally,

angela_howard (01:58.764)

And I have been a bit of an aspiring guitar player myself over the last handful of years, and it has brought me immense amount of joy. And then finally, I'm a huge advocate for conscious capitalism, using business as a force for good and recognizing that capitalism at its core is a really great system when leaders...

brian_mohr (02:07.818)

I'm a huge advocate for conscious capitalism, using business as a force for good and recognizing that capitalism at its core is a really great system when leaders practice it at its highest levels of ethics and morals. And I think we've got an awesome opportunity to create a lot of shared value in the world using capitalism as a model and elevating our leadership to practice it in the most noble of ways.

angela_howard (02:21.558)

practice it at its highest levels of ethics and morals. And I think we've got an awesome opportunity to create a lot of shared value in the world using capitalism as a model and elevating our leadership to practice it in the most noble of ways. And what makes me human? Wow. At the end of the day, I'll answer that by saying, listening to my heart and my gut and privileging that perspective

brian_mohr (02:36.814)

and what makes me human? Wow. At the end of the day, I'll answer that by saying, listening to my heart and my gut and privileging that perspective and allowing my brain to come along for the ride. I think one of the things that separates the human race from any of the other mammalian species is sort of like this heart.

angela_howard (02:51.472)

brain to come along for the ride. I think one of the things that separates the human race from any of the other mammalian species is sort of like this heart gut instinct, besides, of course, having opposable thumbs and some of the other physical characteristics. But this sense of feeling and emotion that, for me and for all of us, is just a uniquely human characteristic. And really leaning into that as I've gotten older and knowing how powerful that is

brian_mohr (03:02.75)

gut instinct, besides of course having opposable thumbs and some of the other physical characteristics, but this sense of feeling and emotion that for me and for all of us is just a uniquely human characteristic and really leaning into that as I've gotten older and knowing how powerful that is, is certainly a huge part of what makes me human.

angela_howard (03:21.492)

certainly a huge part of what makes me human. Love that. Well, uh...

Love your answer. I know that that's a question that always I think is, everyone's delightfully surprised, but also I think after you talk about it, it kind of just grounds us in what we're doing here and really the premise of the podcast, which is building more human-centric workplaces and meeting with guests such as yourself who are making waves in this space. So tell us a little bit about just your professional background. I know you have a wonderful business, which is driving a lot of the concepts

around human-centric workplaces. So tell us a little bit about that and what you're working on. Yeah, I'm happy to, and I'll do it as quickly as I can. When I graduated from college back in the mid-90s, I had no idea what I wanted to be when I grew up.

brian_mohr (04:01.574)

Yeah, I'm happy to and I'll do it as quickly as I can. When I graduated from college back in the mid 90s, I had no idea what I wanted to be when I grew up. And so the first five years of my career was spent just gaining a lot of experience and know-how of what it means to be in the business world. And after the first five years, I realized that where I was spending my time wasn't fulfilling me. I didn't go home satisfied with.

angela_howard (04:11.89)

And so the first five years of my career was spent just gaining a lot of experience and know how of what it means to be, you know, in the business world. And after the first five years, I realized that where I was spending my time wasn't fulfilling me. I didn't go home satisfied with why I was doing what I was doing. And I certainly, you know, back in the late 90s, early 2000s, I don't think calling it purpose was something that was on the mainstream radar.

brian_mohr (04:30.226)

why I was doing what I was doing. And I certainly, you know, back in the late 90s, early 2000s, I don't think calling it purpose was something that was on the mainstream radar. But I just knew like I could feel it that what I was doing wasn't all that fulfilling. And so I changed industries completely and I did a bit of a control alt delete of my career. And right place, right time, and hopefully a little bit of the right skill set.

angela_howard (04:42.524)

but I just knew like I could feel it that what I was doing wasn't all that fulfilling. And so I changed industries completely and I did a bit of a control alt delete of my career and right place, right time, and hopefully a little bit of the right skill set. I was one of the first few employees and lucky enough to be a founding member of one of the earliest job boards called Jobbing.com. And I was there for 11 years, an amazing organization

brian_mohr (05:00.282)

one of the first few employees and lucky enough to be a founding member of one of the earliest job boards called Jobbing.com. And I was there for 11 years, an amazing organization, an unbelievable founder and CEO who invested in me tremendously and just helped me understand the power of designing and living an intentional culture guided by a shared set of values that

angela_howard (05:11.704)

unbelievable founder and CEO who invested in me tremendously and just helped me understand the power of designing and living an intentional culture guided by a shared set of values that didn't just decorate the walls, they were really lived out in our day-to-day behaviors and interactions and how we treated one another and then how that really spilled over into the way we took care of our clients and customers.

brian_mohr (05:27.486)

didn't just decorate the walls, they were really lived out in our day-to-day behaviors and interactions and how we treated one another and then how that really spilled over into the way we took care of our clients and customers. And so that was really a defining sort of juncture in my career, was joining this job board. I was there 11 years and I have been ever since in this human resources culture, people recruiting.

angela_howard (05:41.744)

a defining sort of juncture in my career was joining this job board. I was there 11 years and I have been ever since in this human resources culture people recruiting values space. You know it goes by lots of different labels. I've had experiences at PF Chang's leading their talent acquisition. I founded a purpose-based executive search firm

brian_mohr (05:55.59)

values space, you know, and it goes by lots of different labels. I've had experiences at PF Chang's leading their talent acquisition. I founded a purpose-based executive search firm and did that for six years. And then over the past year and a half, have been channeling all of my energy into my new company, which is called Anthem. And I'm really, really excited about what we're doing and the timing of it, you know.

angela_howard (06:11.624)

and a half have been channeling all of my energy into my new company which is called Anthem. And I'm really excited about what we're doing and the timing of it you know you know I wish I could say I had some crystal ball that you know gave me the heads up but you know the timing just is what it is and I think we struck it right and I'm super excited about what we're up to. Great and what are you up to? What is Anthem? What does it do?

brian_mohr (06:26.59)

I wish I could say I had some crystal ball that gave me the heads up, but the timing just is what it is and I think we struck it right and super excited about what we're up

angela_howard (06:41.424)

do and how is it driving some of the conscious capitalism, human-centric workplace themes that you talked about? Yeah, it's a great question and thanks for asking. At its core, Anthem is a trust and connection building platform. So you think about how often trust takes center stage in terms of the most important ingredients to high performing teams. Trust is always at the bedrock of that, right? It's a foundational element.

brian_mohr (06:51.43)

Yeah, great question. And thanks for asking. It's at its core, Anthem is a trust and connection building platform. So you think about how often trust takes center stage in terms of the most important ingredients to high performing teams. Trust is always at the bedrock of that, right? It's a foundational element. Without trust, it's really hard to do great things over any sustained period of time. And trust, really, I think is a bit of a two headed coin.

angela_howard (07:11.504)

It's really hard to do great things over any sustained period of time. And trust really I think is a bit of a two-headed coin. You've got the competency-based trust. Do I trust Angela to do her job because Angela's good at what she does? That matters. And that is a critical side of the trust coin. But the other side of the trust coin, which I think in part was made really popular is not the right word, but was put into the forefront by Brene Brown and all of us.

brian_mohr (07:20.594)

You've got the competency-based trust. Do I trust Angela to do her job because Angela's good at what she does? That matters, and that is a critical side of the trust coin. But the other side of the trust coin, which I think in part was made really popular is not the right word, but was put into the forefront by Brene Brown and all of her work around vulnerability.

angela_howard (07:41.264)

of her work around vulnerability. And there's this side of the trust coin, which is vulnerability based trust. Do I trust Angela as a person? Does Angela have my best interests in mind? Does Angela understand me and do I understand her? So in addition to the competency trust we might have in one another, do we really have trust in one another as human beings that we're there to really be there to help each other grow and achieve common goals? And that's the side of the coin that I don't think gets near the attention that it deserves.

brian_mohr (07:43.494)

And there's this side of the trust coin, which is vulnerability-based trust. Do I trust Angela as a person? Does Angela have my best interests in mind? Does Angela understand me and do I understand her? So in addition to the competency trust we might have in one another, do we really have trust in one another as human beings that we're there to really be there to help each other grow and achieve common goals? And that's the side of the coin that I don't think gets near the attention that it deserves.

And Anthem has found a way to help teams who unfortunately have been disrupted and are not seeing one another and having that proximity based relationship five days a week the way we once were. And, you know, hopefully we'll get back to some semblance of that, but it would certainly appear and, you know, my crystal ball is still as fuzzy as it's ever been. I think work from anywhere, work from home, working remote, whatever we want to call it, I think it's here to stay in a very meaningful capacity.

angela_howard (08:11.604)

And Anthem has found a way to help teams who unfortunately have been disrupted and are not seeing one another and having that proximity based relationship five days a week the way we once were. And hopefully we'll get back to some semblance of that, but it would certainly appear, and my crystal ball is still as fuzzy as it's ever been. I think work from anywhere, work from home, working remote, whatever we wanna call it, I think it's here to stay in a very meaningful capacity.

brian_mohr (08:41.05)

And so as that new paradigm descends upon all of us, how do teams who don't have the ability to build deeper connections and relationships based on proximity, how do you replicate that in a virtual world? And Anthem is focused clearly on doing that by using our life moments and memories, the things that have been significant in our own lives, and coupling that with inspirational media sources like music.

angela_howard (08:41.104)

brian_mohr (09:10.982)

and movies and television shows and Ted Talks and podcasts, a lot of the media that we turn to for information, for intelligence, for inspiration, kind of combining those two things together. And so you think about any great movie as an example, part of what makes a movie great are great actors and actresses, a great storyline and a great soundtrack.

angela_howard (09:11.184)

and movies and television shows and TED Talks and podcasts, a lot of the media that we turn to for information, for intelligence, for inspiration, kind of combining those two things together. And so you think about any great movie as an example, part of what makes a movie great are great actors and actresses, a great storyline, and a great soundtrack. And so in all of our lives, we've had these amazing moments. Some of them have been, you know, celebratory and optimistic, and some of them have

brian_mohr (09:33.754)

And so in all of our lives, we've had these amazing moments. Some of them have been celebratory and optimistic, and some of them have been very sad and traumatic and challenging. And all the while we've been living our lives, there's been a soundtrack playing. And so we use media like music to help catalog or symbolize these important moments and memories, and then use that combination of life moments and memories and media to use that as a way for team members to connect with one another.

angela_howard (09:41.044)

and traumatic and challenging. And all the while we've been living our lives, there's been a soundtrack playing. And so we use media like music to help catalog or symbolize these important moments and memories and then use that combination of moment, life moments and memories and media to use that as a way for team members to connect with one another and really get to know each other at a much, much deeper level than just allowing job titles to determine the depth or strength

brian_mohr (10:02.178)

and really get to know each other at a much, much deeper level than just allowing job titles to determine the depth or strength of relationship that we might have as colleagues.

angela_howard (10:10.864)

that we might have as colleagues. I love it. Yeah, I always think about trust as like a capital T and a lowercase t. You know, the meta trust is I think what you're talking about, right? Which is I fundamentally feel like this person has my best interests in mind. And then the lowercase t to your point around is this person going to do what they say they're going to do? Or are they capable or experts in the space

that they work and can I trust them to deliver? And so I think, I mean, I think your company provides a great opportunity to build the upper case trust, but I feel like on the other end, from a competency perspective, the lower case trust, I feel like you build competence with that soft skill as well, because if I know you have my best interests in mind, I wanna be motivated to deliver more for you.

brian_mohr (11:12.266)

I think you're 100% right. And I think you and I drink from the same pitcher of Kool-Aid, and we're both excited that we seem to be going a lot faster into a world where soft skill leadership philosophy is seen as a better approach. Not that making sure our teams have the hard skills that they need to do their jobs. It's not an either or. It's an and.

angela_howard (11:12.334)

I think you're 100% right and you know I think you and I drink from the same pitcher of Kool-Aid and we're both excited that you know we are seem to be going a lot faster into a world where soft skill leadership philosophy is seen as a better approach not that you know making sure our teams have the hard skills that they need to do their jobs it's not an either or it's an and but I

brian_mohr (11:40.862)

but I think for the longest time, things like empathy and vulnerability and kindness and compassion and even love, not intimacy love, but companionate love, that if we actually allow our hearts to lead, especially when it comes to how we collaborate, how we work together, how we help develop, that's a really powerful opportunity that exists. And...

angela_howard (11:42.808)

things like empathy and vulnerability and kindness and compassion and even love not intimacy love but companionate love that if we actually allow our hearts to lead especially when it comes to how we collaborate how we work together how we help develop that's a really powerful opportunity that exists and there's a lot of leaders who have figured it out and they figured it out

brian_mohr (12:08.894)

There's a lot of leaders who have figured it out and have figured it out decades ago. I mean, Herb Kelleher from Southwest Airlines is a great example. And yet here we are in 2021, heck, almost halfway done with, beyond halfway done with 2021. And I would argue that the business world is still slow to adopt at a level of scale of how important these, you know, quote unquote, soft skills are. They're actually the hardest to develop.

angela_howard (12:12.788)

I mean, Herb Kelleher from Southwest Airlines is a great example. And yet here we are in 2021, heck, almost halfway done with 2021. And I would argue that the business world is still slow to adopt at a level of scale of how important these quote unquote soft skills are. They're actually the hardest to develop because it takes a lifetime to do it. You never get there.

brian_mohr (12:37.742)

Because it takes a lifetime to do it. You never get there. There's always more room to grow these types of skills and And I agree with you the more you invest in those and develop those I The more that lowercase trust as you call it, which I love You're right the more you're able to draw to people because they want to work harder for you with you Because you care

angela_howard (12:42.108)

room to grow these types of skills. And I agree with you. The more you invest in those and develop those, the more that lower case trust as you call it, which I love, you're right. The more you're able to draw to people because they want to work harder for you, with you, because you care.

And I agree with you. I feel like there's such a mental block for some reason around soft leadership skills. Or when I say leadership, I'm not talking about a position or a person in power. I'm talking about the way we lead our lives, the way we lead in our teams. So anybody can be a leader. Where do you think that mental block is coming from? Why are companies, leaders, executives, founders still slow to turn the curve on that?

brian_mohr (13:33.678)

It's an excellent question. And I have two responses. And these are my opinions. I don't know that I'm right, but it logically makes sense to me. One is that if we look at the dominant group of folks that are in the highest of leadership level roles today, these are folks that grew up in a different time and place and what the expectations of business were, right? And so some of this is just old habits, which

angela_howard (13:33.758)

It's an excellent question and I have two responses and these are my opinions. I don't know that I'm right, but it logically makes sense to me. One is that if we look at the dominant group of folks that are in the highest of leadership level roles today, these are folks that grew up in a different time and place, and what the expectations of business were. So some of this is just old habits which they're hard to break.

brian_mohr (14:01.938)

They're hard to break, right? It's hard to, if what got you here is a particular recipe, you want to continue to play and make that same recipe because it has worked. And I understand that. The second thing is I think a lot of these soft skills, again, which to me they're essential skills. There's nothing soft about them, but to use the phrase that's most often used, they're much harder to measure. And listen, business has a...

angela_howard (14:03.312)

It's hard to, if what got you here is a particular recipe, you want to continue to play and make that same recipe because it has worked. And I understand that. The second thing is I think a lot of these soft skills, again, which to me they're essential skills. There's nothing soft about them, but to use the phrase that's most often used, they're much harder to measure. And listen.

brian_mohr (14:31.458)

a requirement to measure, to make sure that the ROI is there. I get that. Without measurement, how do you know you're making progress towards your goals? And so many of these human skills, these essential skills, they're a bit more difficult to wrap your arms around and kind of point to very specific ROI. And so without that hard quantitative backup, I think that adds a degree of difficulty.

angela_howard (14:33.712)

to make sure that the ROI is there. I get that, without measurement, how do you know you're making progress towards your goals? And so many of these human skills, these essential skills, they're a bit more difficult to wrap your arms around and kind of point to very specific ROI. And so without that hard quantitative backup, I think that adds a degree of difficulty to why it hasn't been embraced more widely and more quickly than what it has.

brian_mohr (14:57.17)

to why it hasn't been embraced more widely and more quickly than what it has. But I think the data is there. I think it shows up, it kind of shows up in between the lines. You could look at things like talent attraction. If your culture is well known for being a place where people are cared for and developed, you likely are gonna have an easier time bringing in great talent. Same holds true with retention. Right now, I'm hearing a lot, I have no doubt you're hearing the same thing that.

angela_howard (15:03.492)

is there. I think it shows up, it kind of shows up in between the lines. You could look at things like talent attraction. If your culture is well known for being a place where people are cared for and developed, you likely are gonna have an easier time bringing in great talent. Same holds true with retention. Right now I'm hearing a lot, I have no doubt you're hearing the same thing, that people are kind of poking their heads up over the last 18 months and re-examining their lives in particular because of how much time we spend at

brian_mohr (15:25.118)

people are kind of poking their heads up over the last 18 months and re-examining their lives, in particular, because of how much time we spend at work. Whoa, am I in the right place with the right people? And now that maybe I don't have to live in the same city where my business is, if I have that convenience, maybe I'll look for something else and go find a culture that is more in alignment with the way.

angela_howard (15:32.782)

work.

Well, am I in the right place with the right people? And now that maybe I don't have to live in the same city where my business is, if I have that convenience, maybe I'll look for something else and go find a culture that is more in alignment with the way I wanna be treated, the way I wanna treat others, who I wanna surround myself with. So I think it's really, it's a fascinating time. And I'm just, I'm very bullish about where we're headed

brian_mohr (15:50.698)

I want to be treated the way I want to treat others, who I want to surround myself with. So I think it's really, it's a fascinating time. And I'm just, I'm very bullish about where we're headed. That I think, and I know you agree with me, that we're heading into a much more human centered world of work, which I mean about damn time.

angela_howard (16:03.98)

I think, and I know you agree with me, that we're heading into a much more human-centered world of work, which I mean about damn time. Right, I totally agree. I mean, we've been talking about this for decades and selling and fighting people on it, but I finally feel like I'm in a place, at least in my career, because we work on some of the same things, where I feel like I'm not having to sell as much. And you can kind of let the data speak for itself, right?

upcoming generation especially, Gen Z'ers, your daughters, who are a whole another breed. I mean, Millennials were, I'm a Millennial, so I'm now looking at the Gen Z'ers saying, oh man, they're really, I mean, there's similarities but it's very different. So I'm the old, you know, the old geezer in the room talking to Gen Z'ers and in awe, really, I mean, just that's so appreciative of the

brian_mohr (16:54.174)

Hehehe

angela_howard (17:04.12)

And businesses can no longer hide from understanding their involvement with humanitarian issues. And that includes how you treat your people. So I am really excited and I am just so optimistic about this emerging generation coming into the workforce. And I'm thrilled. I really am. And I think the measurement piece is, you know, I'm just so surprised that we haven't

brian_mohr (17:26.599)

Hear, hear.

angela_howard (17:32.406)

We haven't connected the dots with the fact that.

a lot of the metrics are seen in customer experience metrics, right? So we train our customer reps to treat customers a certain way, cuz we wanna create an experience for them. And it's like, for some reason, we haven't connected the fact that we're also doing the same thing with our customers, which is our employees and the people we employ. So that's one way I think we can just, an actionable item, we can start to look at how we're measuring customer experience and

and transcend that into the employee experience. I fully agree, and I think also one of the underlying movements that's happening is this sort of evolving from the heroic leader to heroic teams. And in order to have heroic teams, you need to have leaders that are there to be of service to their teams and recognize, and to your point exactly, that your team is your first customer,

brian_mohr (18:11.41)

I fully agree and I think also one of the kind of underlying movements that's happening is this sort of evolving from the heroic leader to heroic teams. And in order to have heroic teams, you need to have leaders that are there to be of service to their teams and recognizing to your point exactly that your team is your first customer and you're there as the leader to help them develop, to help them grow.

angela_howard (18:37.128)

to help them develop, to help them grow, both professionally, of course, but also personally. Yeah. I think that mindset of, hey, if I have the honor and privilege of being in a leadership role and I have people that I am responsible for, that my role as a leader is to help them achieve the goals that we have as an organization and the goals that they are pursuing in their own lives. And that pays it forward.

brian_mohr (18:39.314)

both professionally, of course, but also personally. I think that mindset of, hey, if I have the honor and privilege of being in a leadership role and I have people that I am responsible for, that my role as a leader is to help them achieve the goals that we have as an organization and the goals that they are pursuing in their own lives. And that pays it forward.

people will inevitably leave the company, right? The days of 30 years with the same company seem to be, you know, they have faded, right? And so as people come and go, we create these alumni networks of former employees that are either gonna say really great things or perhaps nothing at all or worse, really bad things. And so I think it's just, it's just this huge opportunity to really do well by people, your employees.

angela_howard (19:06.768)

leave the company, right? The days of 30 years with the same company seem to be, you know, they have faded, right? And so as people come and go, we create these alumni networks of former employees that are either gonna say really great things or perhaps nothing at all or worse, really bad things. And so I think it's just, it's just this huge opportunity to really do well by people, your employees.

brian_mohr (19:35.187)

and treat them with that same mindset that to your point that we do our external clients and customers.

angela_howard (19:35.282)

and treat them with that same mindset that, to your point, that we do our external clients and customers. Yeah. And someone asked, I was in a session earlier today, and someone asked me about, what is the future of talent management? What do you see forthcoming? And I really see companies as talent markets, right? It's like you are constantly, without better words, buying and selling.

angela_howard (20:05.456)

Match between the capabilities that you need to move your business forward and the talent that's coming in and out and it's data-driven And it's talent focused where talent is really driving the conversation around aspirations And we're putting ego aside around hoarding talent because that's just it's not possible anymore No one's gonna stay for ten years and actually going to turn people off By hoarding talent and not wanting to move talent around to other parts of the business So I'm again

optimistic. We've got a long ways to go. There's still a lot of companies which is like I tell people all the time I will never be out of a job anytime soon at least in my lifetime because there's so many businesses that need what we're what we're providing. Absolutely, absolutely.

brian_mohr (20:51.05)

Absolutely, absolutely.

angela_howard (20:54.102)

Well, I mean, we, gosh, we talked about a lot today and I wish we could spend like three more hours on packing each topic, but you know, I think we, first of all, your company Anthem, I think, provides a unique experience around how to bring humanity back into connections, regardless of where you are. I love the fact that you're using like neuroscience

culture, really a culture that, again, I think there's a capital C, which is, you know, our culture as a humanity, right? You know, dance, music, food, things that are familiar, those are things that I think create connections and differences to help understand. Because, you know, naturally, we want to connect with people who are like us, but we're also fascinated by people who are different than us. So the fact that you're creating something like that

brian_mohr (21:49.027)

Yeah.

angela_howard (21:54.016)

what that can do for companies and bringing more humanity into the workplace and driving business results because we know connection and trust drives team effectiveness, drives performance. So all that to say, anything else that you wanna add before we wrap up this conversation today. Ah.

brian_mohr (22:12.394)

Uh, I am in violent agreement with everything you just said. And, and, and I love it. It's just so fun to be surrounded by folks that aspire to, uh, you know, create a business world or be a part of a business world and make a contribution towards this, this notion of, you know, moving from some of the fear-based policies of our past into.

angela_howard (22:14.774)

in violent agreement with everything you just said. And I love it. It's just so fun to be surrounded by folks that aspire to create a business world or be a part of a business world and make a contribution towards this notion of, you know, moving from some of the fear-based policies of our past into love-based practices. And again, not intimacy-based love, but the best of what we are capable of as human beings.

brian_mohr (22:37.498)

love-based practices. And again, not intimacy-based love, but the best of what we are capable of as human beings. And that is, you know, this empathy, kindness, compassion, caring about people, as I just believe that relationships are the foundation of all accomplishments. And the stronger our relationships, the better the business results and the better the human results, right? The deeper we're connected, the more happiness and joy.

angela_howard (22:45.128)

you know this empathy kindness compassion caring about people as I just believe that Relationships are the foundation of all accomplishments and the stronger our relationships The better the business results and the better the human results right the deeper were connected the more happiness and joy We have in our own lives. There's just no Downside to it, so I'm just excited to continue to push this boulder

brian_mohr (23:05.302)

we have in our own lives. There's just no downside to it. So I'm just excited to continue to push this boulder up, down, left, right and get the flywheel kicking even faster.

angela_howard (23:14.628)

up, down, left, right, and get the flywheel kicking even faster. Awesome. Well, I love what you're working on. I can only hope that we would collaborate in the future. Anybody in the audience that wants to reach out to Brian will have your website, the show notes, where to contact you, and just thank you so much. I'm so grateful that you spent the time with us today, and thanks for joining.

brian_mohr (23:42.654)

Thanks for having me, Angela, and thanks for all the work you're doing and look forward to our paths continuing to cross.

angela_howard (23:44.608)

you're doing and look forward to our paths continuing to cross.