Values-driven Culture with Fresia Jackson

angela_r_howard (00:02.514)

Hi, Frisia, how are you? It's great to be on the podcast with you. We are laughing because we were literally talking about noise. And the one thing that popped up when we started the podcast was a honking horn of somebody's car outside. But it's all good. It's all good. We're here. It's really, really great to have you on the podcast, Frisia. And I am really excited to talk to you. One, because.

fresia (00:12.43)

Immediately.

fresia (00:19.038)

Yeah.

angela_r_howard (00:30.422)

You are a kindred IO psychologist who I'm sure we could nerd out all day about all things culture and behavior at work. And you also lead up research at Culture Amp. So I will not do your introduction for you. I will bounce it to you. So tell us, Fridja, who you are and what is the impact you're looking to make on the world?

fresia (00:55.181)

Yeah, I'm equally excited to be here. Yeah, so as you mentioned, I'm the lead researcher at Culture Amp. And Culture Amp is an employee experience platform that works with over 6,000 companies to improve their employee engagement, performance and development by making it easy for employees to give feedback to the company as well as to one another.

But my specific thing that I do there is I look across the data, across all of those 6,000 customers to see what are the trends we're seeing, you know, what can we learn so that people don't have to make the same mistakes as other companies, but we can learn from one another and really share that with the world. And as you mentioned, my background is in organizational psychology, which I really went into because...

I realize that we spend a third to half of our waking lives at work. So hopefully it's an enjoyable and fulfilling experience that fills up your cup. So that when you get home from the day, it's adding to it and not detracting from the rest of your life. Really, that's the ultimate hope. So that's the impact I'd like to make on the world. And then also

angela_r_howard (02:15.807)

Mm-hmm. Yes.

fresia (02:21.389)

ultimately just to create a better world of work and use data to do that.

angela_r_howard (02:27.83)

I love it. So it sounds like your value alignment of the work you're doing right now is like, bam, right? Like kind of parallel, you know, and that's really kind of the conversation I wanted to have with you today and chat through because, first of all, Culture Amp has, you know, is a leader in the space when it comes to the research around people experience, employee experience within the workplace, but also...

fresia (02:33.501)

Yes, perfect.

angela_r_howard (02:56.242)

culture assessment. So you all do a lot of research, right? You are doing qualitative, quantitative research to understand the landscape. And so what is the research telling us? I mean, we're in such a pivotal time right now. We're hearing words like the great resignation and quiet quitting. And I think we all sense whatever the word is, that there's some kind of shift happening. So what's the latest research around

fresia (03:01.557)

Thanks for watching!

fresia (03:14.585)

I know. Yeah.

angela_r_howard (03:24.722)

you know, turnover rate and what you're finding.

fresia (03:28.129)

Yeah, and even beyond those like labor market things, you know, we're seeing inflation and tech stock crash and global energy crisis, there is like truly so much uncertainty and so many things that are outside of leaders control. But what is in their control is their culture. And really, that's what's going to help them pivot, help them

angela_r_howard (03:35.604)

Yes.

angela_r_howard (03:41.118)

Mm.

fresia (03:57.489)

you know, prosper even during difficult times. And that culture is what's going to really determine if employees feel like working at the company is helping or hurting their wellbeing during a time that's already generally hurting people's wellbeing. It's quite difficult. And as you mentioned, I mean, really we are seeing it's in employees.

angela_r_howard (04:11.448)

Mm.

angela_r_howard (04:16.102)

guess.

fresia (04:24.073)

job market, and even when it's not, like your highest performing employees can always choose to go elsewhere. They will always have other opportunities. And so really focusing in on what's important for employees at your organization is incredibly important. So some of the latest research we did, we were actually looking at the responses of

almost 1.9 million employees and over 2,400 companies and looking at how could we identify what has a predictable impact on that employee experience and things like the likelihood that employees are going to leave. And through that, we identified two major factors, and you already mentioned one, which is the retention or turnover rate.

and the other being that hiring rate. And those two things have very different impacts as well as converge to create kind of four different company directions that an organization could be going on.

angela_r_howard (05:29.665)

Mm-hmm.

angela_r_howard (05:38.302)

Very cool. Yeah, I love this idea of compiling all the data. Obviously, each company is unique, but this is the space we're in, predictable science and behavior at work. We want to have some kind of archetypes or understanding of where we are. I think as a lot of business leaders are listening to this, CEOs, founders, and...

fresia (06:01.241)

Mm-hmm.

angela_r_howard (06:06.894)

I think it's really important to slow down and understand where you are in this very moment, because that is going to create a roadmap as to what you actually want to create. And things like values, decisions, day-to-day behaviors, habits of your organization are going to impact, type of culture you're going to build. So tell us about the four, because I would love to understand. Maybe as you're listening, I know there's a quiz that Culture Amp provides that we can include in the show notes. But maybe it's.

Tell us some characteristics of each of the four so folks can understand where they are today.

fresia (06:40.233)

Definitely, yeah. And I think what you just said is so important because when I start to describe them, I think many people are going to say like, oh, I wanna be that one or that's the good one to be. And there's no good ones or bad ones, they just are. Every single one has strengths, it has opportunities, it has actions that those companies can take. So.

angela_r_howard (06:51.601)

Mm-hmm.

angela_r_howard (06:57.883)

Yes.

fresia (07:07.537)

Yeah, and it changes over time. What you are now is gonna be different than six months from now, and you can actively transform that as well. So if we think of it as a two by two, we're like going to business school, right? Of a retention rate and hiring rate. In the top right, so those companies that are hiring and retaining more than average in their industry.

angela_r_howard (07:15.353)

Mm-hmm.

angela_r_howard (07:22.415)

Yes.

fresia (07:35.389)

And that's a really important point. So we use this methodology of comparing to the industry because otherwise we, well, we recognize that the baseline rates are quite different, right? Like government is having a very different turnover rate than tech, for example. And we didn't want any of these archetypes to be biased towards a particular industry. So if we look at that top right there.

angela_r_howard (07:37.393)

Mm-hmm.

fresia (08:01.365)

hiring more than average and they're retaining more than average. These are expanding companies and what we find at expanding companies is well one It's interesting is high hiring companies in general We see that they're not usually actually keeping up with demand in the amount that they're hiring So we see that they're less likely to feel like they can accomplish what they need to

during their working hours. So in general, that growth does create issues with work-life balance. But it also, they're much more positive because they're obviously doing well in the business well enough to hire new employees. So they're motivated and they feel like the company is in a position to succeed. But what's really interesting when we look at comparing

angela_r_howard (08:30.421)

Mmm.

fresia (08:57.893)

expanding, so those are the ones where they're retaining and they're hiring to rotating. They're losing employees, but they're hiring, so they're kind of the juxtaposition one. We see while they both have increased job demands, they're equally likely, so only one in two employees say they can accomplish what they need to during working hours. For one, for rotating, that turns into stress.

angela_r_howard (09:01.541)

Mm-hmm.

angela_r_howard (09:08.126)

Okay.

angela_r_howard (09:20.474)

Mmm.

fresia (09:25.993)

They are the most likely to say that they're stressed. Whereas the expanding do not say they're stressed. They're the least likely of the four company types. And so we really wanted to dig into that. What is the difference between what these two companies are doing, two company types? And what we see is that one, the leaders demonstrate that wellbeing is important, and two, they design.

angela_r_howard (09:26.534)

Uh...

fresia (09:53.097)

jobs that are aligned with an employee's strengths, aspirations and motivations. And by doing those two things, the expanding companies are able to buffer these job demands from turning into burnout.

angela_r_howard (10:10.543)

Yeah, because stress could be, I mean, depending on to your point how it's experienced, I'm stressed every day, but I love what I do, right? Like this...

fresia (10:20.805)

Yeah, well, that's a great point. Yeah, you stress versus distress, right? That's, yeah, enjoyable stress that puts the kick in your butt to do things.

angela_r_howard (10:31.15)

Right, exactly. And I do think, I mean, this gets back to the values conversation, that the purpose-driven nature of work. I'm connected to a purpose every day. I have my own business, right? So it's a little bit different. But as intrapreneurs, people who are working within an organization, have you seen any difference with that as a driver, like connection to purpose, connection to the mission? Has that changed?

between those two archetypes or profiles.

fresia (11:04.409)

I love what I love entrepreneur first I've never heard of that and feel that I identify as one of those because I have Crafted my own role twice and love thinking about you know, what are the needs of the organization? How might I fulfill that? and What we see so particularly from the work there's a question around the work I do makes good use of my strengths and so that is

angela_r_howard (11:11.755)

Yes.

angela_r_howard (11:21.284)

Mm-hmm.

angela_r_howard (11:31.359)

Mmm.

fresia (11:33.533)

really much higher in those expanding companies. And so employees are able to feel that purpose a little bit more. And one other thing that comes to mind when you ask that is, so if we go down to those decreasing companies, so think about, we're at the bottom left now. So those are the companies where they are losing employees, so they have a low retention rate, and they also aren't able to replace them.

angela_r_howard (11:53.982)

Mm-hmm.

fresia (12:03.601)

So on the business side, there aren't as many demands for their services. And also on the people side, they, they aren't able to retain employees. One thing that we find is the employees who stick around when it comes to what drives them, what motivates them, what engages them, they really want to be part of that comeback story. Like they want to see that the company is.

angela_r_howard (12:25.519)

Mmm. Mm-hmm.

fresia (12:30.533)

um, you know, making the right choices that even though they aren't in a position to succeed right now, there's a vision for the future And that the work they are doing makes a positive difference so it's even more important for them when the organization is struggling for them to feel like there is alignment with The impact that they're ultimately having on the world um, so that's a

angela_r_howard (12:54.846)

Mm-hmm.

fresia (12:57.789)

Yeah, interesting to see how what drives engagement differs for each of those company types.

angela_r_howard (13:05.41)

Yeah, that's fascinating to think about, I think. And there has to be some kind of, I don't know, and let me know if you're seeing this in the research, but this is just my hypothesis behind the scenes, is there has to be some kind of thresholds of kind of like when you move from one quadrant to another, right? You know, kind of that decision to say, you know what, I've waited it out and I'm not seeing.

fresia (13:26.12)

Yeah.

angela_r_howard (13:34.99)

you know, kind of the culture improving or the results or, you know, the excitement that I had when I started. So are you seeing any like indicators of like key decision points or drivers that are causing people to bounce across these quadrants?

fresia (13:41.196)

I know.

fresia (13:52.181)

I think that's a great point. And given that we see there's such different drivers of engagement across, so I'll give an example for, if we just look not the four company types, but just the high hiring versus low hiring, what we find most drives engagement for those high hiring employees is development. They feel like if the company's growing, they are also going to grow alongside the company.

angela_r_howard (14:08.455)

Mm-hmm.

fresia (14:21.309)

And so that's also why they're okay with dealing with those really long working hours and the lack of work-life balance because they think it's ultimately going to lead to greater career opportunities. Whereas for those low hiring companies, the number one driver of engagement is psychological safety. It's that stability.

that they have from working with the same coworkers every day, feeling like they can be vulnerable, that safe environment that comes from it. And so when you think about this, these are two very different types of employees, right, that want those two different environments, one being a bit more high stress, you're right, stress, not, you stress, not distress, but they want that challenge versus

angela_r_howard (15:09.41)

Mm-hmm. Yep.

fresia (15:14.461)

people who desire that stability and comfort. And so if you are trying to move between different company types, I think it's incredibly important to be clear about those desires and allow employees to opt out because that might not have been what they signed on for.

angela_r_howard (15:20.921)

Mm.

angela_r_howard (15:37.917)

Mmm.

fresia (15:40.945)

right, or what ultimately motivates them and recognizing that, yeah, you're going to have to find new people that are intrigued by that vision and that culture that you're trying to make. And that's not a bad thing, but it just means being open and honest.

angela_r_howard (15:41.423)

Yes.

angela_r_howard (16:02.066)

Yeah, I think that's a very underrated factor when it comes to culture is this idea of opting out. I think we traditionally think about the relationship with the organization as like loyalty or this like, I don't know, unrealistic like bond between employees and employers. And I think we're realizing that people are

fresia (16:24.182)

Yeah.

angela_r_howard (16:30.934)

looking to obtain an experience and an enrichment from the organization they work from, just like anything else, right? Like you go to a restaurant, you expect an experience, you purchase things online, like we are in an experience economy right now. So I think there's some old school mentality and paradigms that a lot of people still have. And you know, just the message here, I think is, you know, people are...

fresia (16:36.605)

Yeah.

angela_r_howard (16:59.298)

First of all, wanting different things, but generally they're looking for enrichment and what enrichment looks like to them May may be different and having those open conversations. I think is really important, especially if your organization is transforming from one quadrant to another right or Is changing? having the open conversation to say and creating the space to allow for important transitions like

fresia (17:15.541)

Yeah.

angela_r_howard (17:25.85)

Because I think what happens is we're kind of reactive, right? We get to a place of like survival where it's like a layoff or, you know, we now have just too many people. So let's get rid of everybody. And we're seeing a lot of that in the tech space right now. Um, so yeah, kind of a, kind of a rant, but I think that's such an underrated element of culture. Um, like I know Zappos, for example, I think with like, they hire people within the three, within three months, they pay people to leave.

fresia (17:29.097)

Yeah.

fresia (17:38.874)

Yeah.

angela_r_howard (17:54.802)

for example. So it's like, how do we have more open conversations and mechanisms to make sure those things come out as culture is happening and abing and flowing?

fresia (17:56.221)

Yeah.

fresia (18:06.793)

Yeah, and I love that you said, you know, enrichment differs for each person, because I think, you know, yeah, we are seeing the changes in the psychological contract between employees and employers, and employees feel like they can ask for what they need, and we kind of see these two groups of employees that really want that purpose and their identity to come from work.

angela_r_howard (18:20.464)

Yes.

fresia (18:35.149)

And a whole nother group that's like, I just want to clock in and clock out and have my really stable work life balance. And that's all I need from you. And there's no problem with either of those, but identifying the, the type of employee that, that you, um, that you want in that your organization can actually fulfill those needs for, because those are very different companies that do those things.

angela_r_howard (18:44.657)

Mmm.

angela_r_howard (19:03.95)

Yeah, so what does this do for our concept of employee engagement? Because I know that Culture Amp is more focused on employee experience, which I think is the future of this work. I mean, I've run many an employee engagement survey, but I think it's very limiting given the shift we're seeing. So do you have any thoughts on what that means for employee engagement and how we're thinking about it?

fresia (19:29.121)

Yeah, that's such a good question. I feel like I need to give even more thought to it. But at its core, engagement is really the level of enthusiasm, connection, and commitment that an employee has to your organization. And what we can expect when it comes to commitment, obviously, that's been declining.

for decades, right? We used to work at the same company for your whole life, and now it's much more normal to hop around. But that's because employees are getting more for doing that. So I think that's not a natural state of things, right? I think that's because organizations have taken advantage of employees' loyalty through things like

angela_r_howard (20:12.378)

Mm.

fresia (20:26.421)

hiring employees at a higher compensation rate than the raises that they give to their current employees. So it does, there's a reciprocal relationship between employee experience and engagement. I think ultimately companies probably still desire that enthusiasm, connection and commitment, but are they willing to give that employee experience and enrichment like you're saying to actually get.

That's the question.

angela_r_howard (20:56.262)

Mm. Yeah, that's a great question. And I think it's, yeah, it's, and I think what business owners are probably struggling with right now is there has been kind of a difference in power when it comes to employers and employees, right? Employers are always in a position of power. So we demand engagement and loyalty, but now-

fresia (21:17.542)

Yeah.

angela_r_howard (21:24.306)

those employees are looking back and saying, well, what are you doing to enrich me? Yes, engage me. Yes, put a ring on it. Like, let's make this happen. And that's really, you know, that's, so it's an interesting, I just wonder where that, where that's gonna go, like employee engagement, employee experience, you know, are we going to...

fresia (21:27.185)

Yeah, engage me.

angela_r_howard (21:49.202)

ditch employee engagement at some point? Is it going to matter in 10 years given? And especially when you think about the gig economy and the talent marketplace and what will that look like? So yeah, probably another podcast episode. But tell us about the last quadrant. So I think the last quadrant is holding. And so we talked about the three. What about that last one?

fresia (21:57.149)

Yeah, yeah.

fresia (22:10.365)

Yes.

fresia (22:16.373)

Yeah, so holding is very interesting. So they are retaining employees, but they're not hiring new ones. So they're quite stable and this creates a really healthy work-life balance and employees are most loyal in for this group of companies. They want to stay there. But what's interesting is beyond psychological safety, which I already shared was the top driver

they really want to feel respected and like their unique contribution is valued and This really creates an opportunity because what we find is that they are also lowest on many recognition questions. So Employees don't feel like the right employees are being rewarded and recognized and they feel like their loyalty is you know, potentially being taken advantage of

angela_r_howard (23:01.982)

Hmm.

fresia (23:15.441)

And if you've been with an organization for 10 years, yeah, you might not feel like you're being recognized for what you're bringing to the table. And so I think that's a really interesting place where holding companies can really lean in and figure out how do people want to be recognized as well, because it depends on each person. And one of the things we found in our research was,

calibrations, so really putting in the work within performance reviews to calibrate ratings so that managers are consistently applying the same standards can improve perceptions on those same questions where holding companies are lowest around the right people being rewarded and recognized, things around accountability, because particularly, you know, managers can start to have favorites.

angela_r_howard (23:48.678)

Mm.

angela_r_howard (24:04.498)

Hmm.

fresia (24:12.877)

Right, if they've been working with the same employees for a while, so really having that cross pollination in the calibration discussion of, are you seeing what I'm seeing? Are we both using these, you know, assigning threes in the same way? Those types of discussions can really help for holding companies, yeah.

angela_r_howard (24:13.09)

Yes.

angela_r_howard (24:24.017)

Mm-hmm.

angela_r_howard (24:29.212)

Mm-hmm.

angela_r_howard (24:34.842)

Yeah, it sounds like fairness is a big component too, right? Am I being treated fairly? And I mean, you probably know about the, obviously, I mean, there's a lot when it comes to like bias, when it comes to evaluating, providing opportunities for people. And I do think you get this kind of, I don't know, loyalty bias. I don't even know if that's really a real bias, but it's basically...

fresia (24:37.267)

Yeah.

fresia (24:49.854)

Yeah.

fresia (24:58.649)

Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah.

angela_r_howard (25:01.698)

It's saying like, you've been in the company for 40 years, so we're gonna treat you differently than the person who's been here one year. Which in some cases, you know, when it comes to putting a formula behind things, sometimes that is a factor, but being objective about that. And then also it sounds like, you know, personalization is really important. You know, I think about recognition as a love language. You know, we talk about the love languages, and I feel like recognition is the same.

fresia (25:06.322)

Yeah.

fresia (25:19.118)

Yeah.

angela_r_howard (25:31.278)

You know, some people like the trophy, right? Like, here's this physical thing that signifies your contribution. Some people like the really personal, just picking up the phone or having a conversation from their leader. And some people are terrified of public recognition. Like, they hate it. Like, it's not even a good thing. You're actually putting them in a really tough spot. So...

fresia (25:51.438)

Yes.

angela_r_howard (25:58.578)

asking the question, like, how do you like to be recognized? It's a very easy thing that any leader can do with their team, like, right now, today, after they stop listening to this podcast.

fresia (26:02.126)

Yeah.

fresia (26:09.597)

actually the people who created the four love languages also have a book about them at work and we applied that at culture ramp. Yeah, so except for the physical touched one, it's not included in the workplace. Yeah.

angela_r_howard (26:14.61)

Do they? I love it.

angela_r_howard (26:23.746)

Yeah, we're still in a pandemic, right? Well, I do like a good hug, but I have to remember sometimes, you know, we're in a pandemic. Yeah.

fresia (26:34.121)

But fairness is so important. So many times I'm asked questions of like, what does the future workplace look like? And I am decidedly like, I do not call myself a futurist. And the reason is because I just feel like humans evolve very slowly and our brains evolve very slowly. And so I'm a big subscriber of David Rock's scarf model of the basic needs.

angela_r_howard (26:45.022)

I'm sorry.

fresia (27:03.525)

So status, certainty, relatedness, autonomy, and fairness. And those are really things that in our brain, we are wired to look for these things and see them as threat or reward, depending on where we land on that spectrum. And yeah, so fairness is always going to be important. There are some things that are just going to be important no matter what's going on in the world.

angela_r_howard (27:03.795)

Mmm.

angela_r_howard (27:13.17)

Yes.

angela_r_howard (27:31.666)

guess. Yes, and you bring up a really, really great point, which is I think we are having these futuristic conversations about work and what is the future of work. And the future of work is just getting back to basics is what you're telling me, right? Let's get back to if we're going to create human-centric workplaces, let's understand how the brain works and how bias comes into play and how that impacts team dynamics, how it impacts DE&I, how it impacts performance, productivity. We're all different, but...

fresia (27:32.701)

Yeah.

fresia (27:43.914)

Yes.

angela_r_howard (28:01.774)

our brains are wired to survive. So what does that mean for when we get into groups and we're presented with threat? So, I mean, I love this topic of kind of neuroscience and how it fits into our conversation.

fresia (28:06.65)

Yeah.

fresia (28:18.237)

Yeah, human centric workforces. It just means that we're treating each other like humans and allowing each other to be human. And what do we need? Yeah, yes, exactly.

angela_r_howard (28:26.715)

Yeah.

And we're designing for it. And the thing is that, you know, I talk about, you know, design is a really important element to this because, you know, workplaces, you know, I talk about the industrial revolution a lot and how that was all about like assembly line and machines and it wasn't built with humans in mind. And so I think we're kind of, what we're coming up on is like this, you know, human revolution, right? Where

fresia (28:48.4)

Yeah.

angela_r_howard (28:57.53)

Up until this point, a lot of that old school traditional mentality has seeped into just how we do things at work. But now we're saying it's taken us long enough to wake up to reality to say, well, humans get results, especially in knowledge-based industries. I mean, we still have manufacturing and all those things. We need to think about efficiency and time-lapse studies and all of that. But at the end of the day, there's a human usually behind something.

fresia (29:22.761)

Yeah.

angela_r_howard (29:27.858)

going to just AI and computers. So we have to design for it. And that's what I really think your work, our work is about. So this was such a wonderful conversation. I mean, I would love to have you back, as things are surfacing around other research, if we would all welcome you back to share, because this was just such an applicable model that I think everybody listening to can kind of identify where they are and where they want to go.

fresia (29:33.285)

Yeah.

Yeah.

angela_r_howard (29:57.882)

And then some of the threads, you know, threads like development, personalization, and psychological safety, I think is just a thread throughout all those quadrants. And then getting back to basics about human design and designing for people, not for process or machines. Um, so really just great gems. I love it.

fresia (30:06.085)

Yes.

fresia (30:17.814)

And one thing I didn't share is we found something that was true for all of those quadrants. So no matter which company type you are, the number one reason that employees said they joined the company is also the number one reason they left, and that's career development. So no matter what type of company you are, this is important to fulfill that.

angela_r_howard (30:33.925)

Mm.

Yeah.

fresia (30:45.803)

that you sold people when they were joining the company.

angela_r_howard (30:50.202)

Yeah, and I think we have to get away from this idea of like, they have a job, so they should be happy, right? Every human has aspirations, every human has motivations, and that may not be a ladder move, right? It may be, you know, I think about career development as a jungle gym, like you're all over the place collecting experiences.

fresia (30:51.123)

Yeah.

fresia (31:07.762)

Yeah.

Yes, I love that. Yeah, yeah, stretch projects. Those are all development as well. It's not necessarily that vertical progression that people are looking for. Yeah.

angela_r_howard (31:17.451)

Yes.

angela_r_howard (31:23.414)

Yes, and pay people, right? I mean, that's the other thing. It's like, you know, that's another thing. I think we sometimes like always miss something when it comes to career development. We say, oh, we want you to take on this research project, but we're not gonna compensate you for it. Or we're not gonna give you any path to what a promotion might look like or what a lateral move might look like and what benefit that will have to you and your enrichment. So it kind of goes back to that enrichment piece, right? Like, let's really make sure we're covering all angles of that.

fresia (31:25.489)

Yeah.

fresia (31:48.766)

Yeah.

angela_r_howard (31:52.866)

regardless of which company you fall into.

fresia (31:55.805)

Yeah, enriching the employee experience. That's all, that's what it's about. Asking employees what they want and seeing what you can provide.

angela_r_howard (32:06.178)

I mean, yeah, it seems simple, right? But if it was so simple, you and I would not be, we would be at a beach somewhere, you know, retiring at an early age.

fresia (32:09.106)

So simple. Exactly. And when you talk about human centric workplaces, I think what it comes down to for me is focusing on relationships over results, not because results are unimportant, but you realize that relationships are how you achieve those results.

angela_r_howard (32:28.606)

Mm-mm.

fresia (32:37.084)

And that's the leading indicator.

angela_r_howard (32:40.934)

I love it. I love the work you're doing. Is there anything else? Yes, I would love that. I would love that, especially as we wind down the year, if there's any annual wrap-up type results that we can give people into the following year, I think that would be a fun opportunity. But anything else you wanna mention before we close out and say goodbye to everybody?

fresia (32:44.357)

Always happy to come back and geek out more.

fresia (33:04.735)

Yeah.

fresia (33:10.293)

Um, just find out what you are. What, what type of company are you and are you happy with that? Um, and you know, there's always ways to, uh, capitalize on those strengths. You already have every company has them, um, and, and work through those, those opportunities and, and obstacles. Um, yeah, just focusing on your employees.

angela_r_howard (33:24.228)

Mm.

angela_r_howard (33:38.19)

Yeah, yes, yes. We're gonna preach this until the world ends. So, I feel like we've both been on top of a ability to screaming this for decades, but truly, I mean, if you say you're going to prioritize people, you have to put action behind it. You have to put results behind it. You have to put accountability behind it. So, we've given you some tools.

fresia (33:40.174)

That's the easiest thing. Yeah, exactly.

fresia (33:52.734)

Yeah.

fresia (33:58.985)

Yeah.

fresia (34:04.381)

That's one of the silver linings that we found was that decreasing companies were the most likely to be committed to acting on employee feedback. So that was something else that was interesting. So sometimes it seems like there has to be something negative going on in order for companies to actually take that leap. So don't wait until that's the case. Yeah.

angela_r_howard (34:15.606)

Mmm.

angela_r_howard (34:28.138)

Yeah, we don't go to the doctor when, you know, we like to be preventative, right? Like go get your annual checkup, you know, hire, hire somebody to help you with assessing where you're at so you can, um, so you can act on it proactively. And that when, and that when, you know, you're ready to, to lay off people or when you're ready, when there's a downturn in the market, I think culture is just something you tend to always.

fresia (34:32.732)

Yes.

fresia (34:44.494)

Exactly.

fresia (34:48.146)

Yes!

fresia (34:54.241)

Exactly. Well, thank you so much for having me, Angela.

angela_r_howard (34:58.162)

Thank you, Frisa. It was so wonderful talking with you. We will make sure to put where to find you, where to find Culture Amp, and the recent study on these four different company types within the show notes. And looking forward to more conversations.

fresia (35:14.749)

Amazing. Sounds great. Thanks.