Harnessing the Power of Underrepresented Leaders with Jenny Vazquez-Newsum
angela_r_howard (00:02.018)
Jenny, my friend, welcome to the podcast. How are you? I'm good. It's I'm so happy we finally have had a chance to do this. I know you have been busy working on your book, working on the untapped leaders community. And I would love for you to start with just an introduction. Tell us who you are and what is the impact you're looking to make on the world.
jenny_vazquez_newsum (00:05.688)
Good. How are you, Angela?
jenny_vazquez_newsum (00:24.379)
Yes. Well, thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here as well. I'm Jenny, and I am a leadership facilitator, a writer, a consultant. And the impact I want to have in the world, if I were just to name it clearly, is to create spaces where everyone can lead in their own way, authentically, with their whole selves, because that is urgently needed in this planet.
angela_r_howard (00:54.986)
Yes, oh my gosh, 100%. And the community you've created, Untapp Leaders, which is much more than a community, it's a community, it's a space. It's a space for, I think, healing, but also rapid action and change around this idea of leadership and leading authentically. And so tell us more about what is Untapp Leaders and what is the community focused on doing?
jenny_vazquez_newsum (00:55.143)
I'll stop there.
jenny_vazquez_newsum (01:15.419)
Yeah.
jenny_vazquez_newsum (01:23.523)
Yeah, I appreciate that question. So Untapp Leaders is a dynamic and diverse leadership community that amplifies the contributions and ingenuity of marginalized leaders. And so there's a couple aspects of that I want to emphasize. So we're dynamic and diverse in that we are fueled by the members in the community. We are fueled by the unique experiences that everyone's navigating.
across different industries, sectors, roles, and really understanding the impact of being you as a leader of color in whatever space, everything that comes up with that is gonna be different. So we really lean on that dynamism to learn and lead alongside each other. We are also a, you know, I'd say, on tap leaders is a framework. So I...
written a book on TAP leadership, a harnessing the power of underrepresented leaders that will be out June, 2023. So keep an eye out. But I appreciate that. Yeah, so it really, the community itself and the whole mission of this organization sits upon a framework that really questions and departs from traditional paradigms of leadership and really
angela_r_howard (02:30.024)
Yay! Yes, I'm so excited for this, yeah.
jenny_vazquez_newsum (02:51.123)
leans on the skill and strategies that leaders of color take in navigating workplaces that might have more dominant cultures. And so, we lean on that framework within the community to really dig into leadership that is defined by us and for us when it hasn't been for centuries. And I, you know, I name
and I use the term marginalized leaders quite a bit. There's the aspect of being underrepresented and that's true, we are underrepresented in top roles but if you explore it a little further, I think what really is happening is it is a marginalization of our leadership, our approaches, our definitions. We are kind of...
are not included in the bookshelves or the stages when we kind of really think about defining leadership. And so we really are helping members to dig into, question, reimagine what leadership is and understand that we may not have been given enough credit in the past and we have a lot more power given the standpoint that we have as having navigated.
our careers, you know, and not being in this majority, we're not being in spaces that we are maybe the one or the few as we go through. So it's a great space. I love learning alongside everyone else as well.
angela_r_howard (04:30.489)
Yeah!
angela_r_howard (04:34.578)
Yeah, and I just joined the community and I've already been just, I don't know, just having the space to talk about and to experience something similar with folks. And the way that I kind of as a member right on my side, how I'm experiencing the space is, you know, I have worked within spaces that I have been the only one and I have felt like.
perhaps the way I think about leadership, thinking about it as in service to others or thinking about leadership itself as community or thinking about leadership from an EQ perspective versus an IQ perspective. All of these things are wrapped in the values that make me and kind of tie back to my identity. So having a space where you can just explore and actually organize and reimagine leadership is...
jenny_vazquez_newsum (05:20.999)
Mm-hmm.
angela_r_howard (05:31.03)
been so valuable. And you recently posted a, you have a newsletter on LinkedIn, which I always read when it comes out. I get so excited because it's such amazing valuable information. And I think one of the first newsletters you posted was around, you basically Googled the word leadership, right? Or I think you, tell us a little bit more about that and what you found and how it ties to this.
jenny_vazquez_newsum (05:37.307)
do.
jenny_vazquez_newsum (05:50.951)
Mm-hmm.
jenny_vazquez_newsum (05:54.339)
Yes. Well, this I mean, this is what started this whole endeavor. You know, I've for the past two decades have studied leadership, you know, through my academic coursework, you know, trained leadership programs and really using tools and frameworks in my facilitation. And, you know, in the height of 2020, I think it was a core shaking.
year for a lot of folks and it was the same for me. I came to this realization that you know I had been contorting a bit to you know make leadership work and train and facilitate and read and kind of apply these tools but all the frameworks I've ever used have been written by and created by white men. So all the theories I'd studied
angela_r_howard (06:48.481)
Mm.
jenny_vazquez_newsum (06:50.679)
were created during eras of exclusion, you know, really our foundation of leadership in a very theoretical sense, and now today in this practical sense, is really fueled by only a very certain perspective. So in those months in 2020, on the heels of George Floyd's murder, I, you know, had a moment of thinking about, you know, how have I been
angela_r_howard (06:55.284)
Mm-hmm.
jenny_vazquez_newsum (07:19.655)
complicit and complacent in what I do in my time in talent, in this situation. And really that's when I actually Googled top leadership books, you know, in that moment and scrolling through all of the results, I actually pulled together who were the authors, who they represented and it was over 90% white men.
angela_r_howard (07:21.975)
Hmm.
angela_r_howard (07:48.119)
Hmm.
jenny_vazquez_newsum (07:48.359)
who were the ones that were resulting in these top results. And so, you know, I just, that was the moment where I realized that, you know, my leadership is not represented here. I know a lot of talented, impactful, amazing leaders of color, all different backgrounds that have...
had such an impact on their organizations, their communities, their teams. And they're employing different strategies, different leadership approaches that aren't being represented on these bookshelves. And so that's where it really came about to write the book on TAP leadership, to name it. So folks can see that we are missing quite a lot. When we're trying to define leadership, we've only looked.
and a very small sliver of it. So there's much more to explore. And Untapp Leaders, the community, is really putting it into practice right here, right now. This is a time for us to really exercise our unique approaches to leadership, because as we've talked about, the world needs it desperately. We need another way of doing things.
angela_r_howard (08:51.286)
Mm.
angela_r_howard (09:03.61)
Yes.
angela_r_howard (09:08.542)
Yeah, and ever since I read your article, I have had my feelers up because I then started to realize, you know, I go on LinkedIn or Twitter and it's like, oh, top, you know, put these leadership books on your list, you know, game changing leadership books. Right. And I started looking at the list and I'm like, oh, my gosh. It is it is undeniably prominent.
jenny_vazquez_newsum (09:30.795)
Yep.
jenny_vazquez_newsum (09:38.545)
FF
angela_r_howard (09:38.778)
And so what I started doing because of you is I started writing comments and responses to those people and making sure that I was recommending books from people of color. Because they're all coming from the same perspective. They're all saying the same thing. And we were talking earlier, a lot of them aren't saying anything in some cases. We look at some thought leaders. I've got big air quotes for those of you who are listening.
jenny_vazquez_newsum (09:49.744)
Yes.
jenny_vazquez_newsum (10:00.894)
Hahaha!
angela_r_howard (10:06.71)
thought leaders in these spaces, and it's a lot of recycled information. And I think that we are at a cusp of people want work to look different. And I think this is obviously the time to be including diverse voices in the conversation about leadership and what leadership means. And I don't know, I think we're kind of moving away from the traditional paradigm of leadership.
jenny_vazquez_newsum (10:10.011)
Yes.
jenny_vazquez_newsum (10:35.671)
I think so as well, and it's uncomfortable. I think I also react to those posts that rarely, if ever have anyone of color, sometimes they don't even have women represented. And it's so, we don't notice, we don't notice it usually. And I really wanna underline like the impact
angela_r_howard (10:36.354)
And so, yeah.
angela_r_howard (10:54.507)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
jenny_vazquez_newsum (11:05.871)
that can have on how we see leaders. So if these are the voices, if these are the authorities on defining leadership, I do think it has an impact on who then gets promoted into these top roles. And so it's just kind of the cycle that fortifies itself that we really need to break down. It's time. And so, I think we are capable of
angela_r_howard (11:26.392)
Mmm.
jenny_vazquez_newsum (11:35.375)
you know, moving beyond kind of these overly simplified leadership to do's, these recycled jargon, like easy steps to take to be a leader and really get down to the root and the difficulty of leadership. In my book, I talk about, you know, leadership really requiring contextual agility. I think that's what, you know, leaders of color exercise.
angela_r_howard (11:40.622)
Mm.
angela_r_howard (11:59.495)
Yes.
jenny_vazquez_newsum (12:02.511)
because we have to understand the context of our environments, of ourselves, to navigate successfully. And I think there's some power there in leadership, and really thinking about, you know, how can you be contextually agile, understand the context within which you're leading, and respond effectively, because you've now taken in the kind of the totality of a situation.
And so I think we've been, there's been a bit of a disservice, I think, done in a lot of these books where it kind of oversimplifies leadership into a few steps or really said these broad stroke pieces around being authentic and that's leadership or, you know, it doesn't, that shifts with context. Not everyone can be fully authentic at work without some repercussions. And so,
angela_r_howard (12:43.693)
Yeah.
angela_r_howard (12:50.798)
Mm-hmm.
jenny_vazquez_newsum (13:01.619)
Really, I would love to see the dialogue digging a little bit more deeply into what leadership actually requires.
angela_r_howard (13:10.486)
Yes, yes, and I think a new definition of leadership. I think that is the call to action, which is what worked for us before is not going to work for us moving forward. And for those of you who are executives, who are listening, I work with a lot of executives and I know they have their holy grail of books that they refer to. There's like, there's two or three of them typically, and it either has been a cornerstone in how they built their business.
jenny_vazquez_newsum (13:15.042)
Mm-hmm.
angela_r_howard (13:38.894)
or how they think about leadership, I want you to pull out those books and I want you to research the authors and I want you to verify that you have a diverse set of perspectives that is feeding into your idea of business and leadership and organizational development. Because if you don't, and you're also preaching DE&I and inclusion, but you are still surrounding yourself by self-validating ideas that
jenny_vazquez_newsum (14:07.422)
Uh.
angela_r_howard (14:09.078)
are very narrow in perspective, you have some work to do. And even me, like I looked at, I'm looking at my bookshelf now and I don't have a diverse representation. I have old books that I've had for years and years. To your point, I worked in corporate America too and all the theories, all the concepts, even all the research being in organizational psychology, the people of color,
jenny_vazquez_newsum (14:32.964)
Mmm.
angela_r_howard (14:36.354)
participation even in those studies, I think, has been so tiny that you're just not getting the full picture. And we live in a country that is diverse. So there's so much to unpack.
jenny_vazquez_newsum (14:40.657)
Yes.
jenny_vazquez_newsum (14:47.699)
Yes, there's so much to unpack. And I think, you know, just to bring in an example that I explored in my book connected to the research. So the Ohio State University, one of their big leadership accomplishments or research studies has been around behavioral theories. And this was in like the 1940s. And so even to this day, they presently say like that was kind of, you know.
angela_r_howard (14:54.103)
Mm-hmm.
jenny_vazquez_newsum (15:16.375)
a pivotal research study of the huge impact. And then you dig a little bit more. And during that time, the very few black students that were allowed to be at the university could not live on campus. So if you kind of make the connection, then who participated in that study? Whose leadership was being studied and now has been kind of the seminal work that informs so much more when black people couldn't be.
on campus. And so we just have to kind of ask these questions. And I'm with you, like, you know, it's pervasive. You have to check your bookshelves because you don't notice, you don't realize it. But then you have to, I think that's the leadership moment of like realizing, okay, I don't have the full picture. I'm operating in ways that are limited, based off of these limited perspectives that I'm taking in.
And so then how is that limiting to my work, to the people around me? And so there's a lot to unpack. I'm with you on that.
angela_r_howard (16:23.07)
Oh my gosh, yeah, we could probably do five more podcast episodes just on like the systemic part of this. I mean, that's 60 odd years ago that you're talking about that study, right? That is just like one generation away. And I think sometimes we look back at those things like, oh, we don't do that anymore. That was so long ago. But I'm old enough to remember when I was in grad school reading through
jenny_vazquez_newsum (16:29.469)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm. That's right.
angela_r_howard (16:49.75)
peer-reviewed articles and looking at the population that was participating. And even though, you know, there are black people now on campus or people of color on campus, we still, you know, there still has been gaps as to how we've made sure that those studies are representative. So, so there's a lot to unpack. I think, you know, your community is so needed. And I know a part of a lot of the work you're doing is ensuring that we're bringing those voices forward.
And so how does, let's say, if the opposite of untapped is tapped, right? So tapped leadership, you know, we know who those people look like. They're, you know, white men who have dominated the top echelons of leadership for for, you know, centuries and decades and generations. And so if you are someone who is in that group, right? So you're in a place of privilege, power, position to
jenny_vazquez_newsum (17:25.114)
Uh huh. Uh huh.
jenny_vazquez_newsum (17:43.376)
Yeah.
angela_r_howard (17:48.942)
join this movement of ensuring untapped leaders and voices are represented. What do I do? What are some things that I can be doing to be a better ally with this work?
jenny_vazquez_newsum (17:55.611)
Hmm.
jenny_vazquez_newsum (18:00.803)
Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, for those that are in positions of a lot of formal authority, a lot of formal power in organizations, and, you know, typically we know who those folks are, I think there are strategies to shift power that, you know, it feels uncomfortable. It feels like you're losing something. But I...
I don't believe in that. I feel like there's something a lot more gained and strategies that you can put forth and operationalize in the workplace to actually shift that power. I use an example of a leader I worked with at a former organization, white men, and very high up in this organization. And by chance in my role, I was at the director level.
I had to have a kind of interaction and collaboration with him on a project that was gonna impact the whole organization. So that was like my first exchange with someone of that stature. And I'll never forget how instantly in our first collaborative meeting to kind of think about and strategize how he shifted power to me, how he deferred
angela_r_howard (19:04.224)
Mmm.
jenny_vazquez_newsum (19:24.663)
expertise and kind of control of the conversation to me in that exchange. I was on the front line of the problem. I was kind of experiencing the challenge. So I had the answers. I had ideas. And I'll truthfully, I went in ready to like, just defer to what he said, because that's how you respond to leadership or those in those top roles.
And I think any executive can do that at any time to really defer and allow others in a variety of roles to be the experts in what they do and what they see. And especially when they say, hey, this is not working for me, or this is not, as someone that has these lived experiences or whatever it may be that's fueling your response to
angela_r_howard (20:16.768)
Mm.
jenny_vazquez_newsum (20:22.667)
a decision being made, a process, those in those positions have to be ready and comfortable to hear that and to do something about that. It's not an assault on your authority or your power. You know, like it just, I sometimes sense a hesitation or, you know, as extreme as a, you know, kind of a hostility against any.
angela_r_howard (20:39.191)
Mm-hmm.
jenny_vazquez_newsum (20:49.203)
any chance that your leadership authority is challenged by those around you. But in fact, what you're doing is creating a space where everyone thrives and therefore the organization thrives.
angela_r_howard (21:02.554)
Yeah, and I think we have to rethink what it means to be a leader. You know, I think currently we think about leadership as it is something I've earned. When I think about leadership, though, I think of it as something that is validated by my followers every day. Right. Like I don't determine if I'm a leader, someone else determined, just like allyship, someone else determines if I'm a leader. So I'm proving myself every day. That I'm a leader.
jenny_vazquez_newsum (21:20.912)
Mm.
angela_r_howard (21:32.554)
I don't stay a leader just because I have a title on an org chart. So I think that shift is very different and it's scary because I think we live in a society and a culture holistically where you earn a spot. And that spot, we don't want to let go of that spot because it holds power, it holds money, it holds wealth, it holds XYZ. So I think this shift to...
jenny_vazquez_newsum (21:36.587)
Mm-hmm.
jenny_vazquez_newsum (21:50.63)
Eh.
jenny_vazquez_newsum (21:54.53)
Uh huh.
angela_r_howard (22:02.146)
you're earning leadership every day by demonstrating it. But then also just to unpack the characteristics of this leader that empowered you, I think it takes a level of humility and courage, self-reflection. I think it takes a level of humility that I don't think we've built into current past leadership models of what leadership is, like the construct, how we've defined it.
jenny_vazquez_newsum (22:06.043)
Hmm.
jenny_vazquez_newsum (22:23.905)
That's right.
angela_r_howard (22:28.722)
And being, I think, a measure of successive leadership, future leadership, modern leadership, is how many leaders you create, how you distribute your power. And I've always said, my role is to work myself out of a job. I want to be, at some point, looking around and saying, I empowered all of these people to do great things. And I entrusted their brilliant minds to achieve what I hired them to do.
jenny_vazquez_newsum (22:37.112)
Mm-hmm. That's it.
jenny_vazquez_newsum (22:43.381)
Mm-hmm.
angela_r_howard (22:56.83)
And just, you know, those things are so natural to you and I to talk about. Like this is how we, it connects directly with our value system. It is a little counterculture to what we experience perhaps in corporate or in organizations, but we always knew it to be true. So I think we're now coming to a head where we're realizing actually this style of leadership creates healthier people. It creates happier people. It creates.
jenny_vazquez_newsum (23:00.645)
Right.
jenny_vazquez_newsum (23:22.919)
Mm-hmm.
angela_r_howard (23:25.494)
better organizations, it creates results, more productivity, a better employee experience. And so the time is now for this work, absolutely.
jenny_vazquez_newsum (23:35.599)
That's right. That's right. And I think, you know, it, we, going to your original point, like really looking at how we define leadership, decoupling it from a position or a top of the org chart, you know, it's ambiguous when we say like, oh, the leadership of the organization, the leadership organization. When you say that, I really, really hope you're talking about folks at different levels of,
angela_r_howard (23:59.463)
Mm-hmm.
jenny_vazquez_newsum (24:05.231)
the org chart, like you can't like catch yourself. That's another like to do to take away from this conversation. Catch yourself when you say the leadership of the organization and see if you're only really thinking about those at the top, at the positional top. Because then you're limiting your definition of leadership and then we're limiting ourselves the potential of everyone exercising their own leadership in different ways and for it to look differently and from different positions.
angela_r_howard (24:17.923)
Hmm.
jenny_vazquez_newsum (24:36.868)
that really is the impact we want to see. And it's really how we want to experience work. You know, we want to be able to lead in our way in the workplace and we all thrive as a result. So yeah, I'm with you and like really kind of checking in on that traditional expectation of leadership being, sitting in one certain place and tied to title.
angela_r_howard (24:43.551)
Mm-hmm.
jenny_vazquez_newsum (25:04.571)
That's out the window, I think. It should be out the window now.
angela_r_howard (25:07.354)
Yeah. Yeah, it is definitely getting there. And I think, you know, people are voting with their feet when it comes to these topics. And the next thing I wanted to kind of just ask you about is this idea of bias, because I think we are moving towards something different, but the bias has still exists in organizations around what leadership looks like, what it feels like, what it sounds like, you know.
jenny_vazquez_newsum (25:15.535)
Yeah.
angela_r_howard (25:34.714)
what kind of hairstyle it has, you know, what color skin someone is, who is in a leadership position, like all these things, um, you know, are real and, and absolutely happy on a day-to-day basis around who gets opportunity, who is considered in the pipeline of succession and leadership. And I think it's been a barrier and the reason why we see the population of leadership as it is now at the top levels of leadership, because there is
jenny_vazquez_newsum (25:36.867)
Mm-hmm.
jenny_vazquez_newsum (25:49.659)
Mm-hmm.
angela_r_howard (26:04.042)
absolutely bias and bias turns into discrimination when it comes to the makeup of those teams. So what are your thoughts? How does this fit into the picture and how do we actively combat that?
jenny_vazquez_newsum (26:21.619)
Big question. Let me answer that. No. Well, and I think this is where like the work of untapped leadership like digs in because we have to be comfortable with the complexity of how bias shows up and really
angela_r_howard (26:23.685)
Yeah, I know. Whole other podcasts. Yeah.
angela_r_howard (26:35.374)
Hmm.
jenny_vazquez_newsum (26:50.147)
ask the hard questions, where all of us carry biases. Some of those biases, and again, if we have those with positional authority, with power, that decision-making impact, that bias can be exercised in pretty consequential ways. But part of the work around untapped leadership was really kind of shifting
the spotlight and showing proof of leadership existing in other ways. And, you know, I was very deliberate in when I'm writing the book and being sure and being clear to kind of create the connections to how our leadership frameworks today and how it's practiced is connected to times of exclusion, of extreme bias, of racism.
angela_r_howard (27:23.669)
Mm-hmm.
angela_r_howard (27:47.278)
Mm. Mm-hmm.
jenny_vazquez_newsum (27:50.047)
and how it could be pervasively executed today in ways that we might not even realize, even in ourselves. I mean, I think that's really the hard question. I always have these moments of like, oh, you know, unlearning a bit of realizing I'm adopting some of these ways of doing things that actually don't align with me and don't help me. So why...
angela_r_howard (27:59.553)
Yeah.
angela_r_howard (28:06.483)
Yeah.
jenny_vazquez_newsum (28:17.771)
Why am I doing that? And I think it's because I'm informed by the biases of like what leadership looks like. I'm, you know, emulating certain things or, you know, behaviors that have been adopted by, you know, other groups. And it's not me and nor do I agree with it. But I, you know, I just, it's hard to unpack bias because it's just, you know, you...
angela_r_howard (28:39.281)
Mm-hmm.
jenny_vazquez_newsum (28:46.539)
It pops up at any moment. It pops up for you and me and anyone every day. And if we're not kind of attuned to it, then we'll act. Then we'll make decisions based off that. And so, I think for any organization really digging in to the work, I hope it's not just a workshop or even one day retreat. It's much deeper than that. How can you create processes and operations that...
you know, help to identify bias or explore, you know, where it might come up and really embedding that into the process, into beyond, into the structure, I'd say, of the organization. So it's hard. It's hard.
angela_r_howard (29:29.069)
Yeah.
angela_r_howard (29:34.302)
I know, I know. And it's, you know, I think it also starts in rooms where talent is talked about. You know, I my background's in talent management and I've done many talent review and calibration and succession planning where, you know, I'm in rooms with people who are talking about other talent and, you know, you get the, well, I'm just not sure she'd be a good fit or, you know, not sure she has the executive
jenny_vazquez_newsum (29:43.385)
Yeah.
jenny_vazquez_newsum (29:55.835)
Mm-hmm.
angela_r_howard (30:03.554)
presence to be in a VP role. These are words you should, your ears should be perking up to say, okay, tell me more, help me understand. And I think anybody, anybody listening to this podcast, if you are in rooms where decisions are being made about talent and what their potential is, or you're in a position of hiring and really getting to the types of characteristics you're looking to amplify your culture, it's an opportunity. So.
jenny_vazquez_newsum (30:32.8)
Mm-hmm.
angela_r_howard (30:35.066)
So my last question is really about how folks can support and join the community. So tell us how, so if you are a part of a tapped leadership group and you are really passionate about, you know, creating diversity in voices and thought and leadership.
Or if you are an untapped leader and want to join the community, how can one support help join the movement?
jenny_vazquez_newsum (31:02.41)
Mm-hmm.
jenny_vazquez_newsum (31:06.819)
Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for that question. I think, you know, if you're in positions of being tapped, you know, really exploring and thinking about these questions that we've talked about today and looking at your organization, your teams, where can you foster and cultivate environments that uncover the untapped leadership that does exist in your organization? It is there.
I leave with kind of that question for folks. And always, I hope that my, the book, Untab Leadership, will land on your bookshelf in the next year. That's a big one. So I do have a mailing list to kind of keep updated and put some of the practice, some of the work to practice now. So I hope you, that everyone's welcome to learn and lead alongside those newsletters as well. But especially for those navigating,
angela_r_howard (31:47.598)
Thanks for watching!
jenny_vazquez_newsum (32:06.039)
their work, their careers, you know, as marginalized leaders, as leaders with that whole of these underrepresented identities, I do really want to emphasize that, you know, untapped leaders exists and is powered by your unique expertise. And so, you know, we run bi-weekly leadership development sessions, career development sessions that are just a space for our community to come together to talk real about, you know, these challenges, but also skill build, learn.
And then we do have bi-weekly peer coaching, which I think that's where a lot of power exists and knowing that nothing is happening in isolation, even though if you feel like you're kind of on your own in your job or role, team, there are others that are just committed to your support. And so really through these bi-weekly coaching sessions, peer coaching sessions, we're...
putting this to practice, we're really distributing leadership and really exploring, you know, how can we really tap into what we have, our power and show up and lead in our authentic selves in whatever industry or work that we do. And so I do hope folks will join and come, you know, contribute and take away from that community. So I imagine the website will be shared via.
the podcast length, perfect. So you'll know where to find me in that. And one aspect that I just wanna emphasize is that one goal of untapped leaders in this community is to really democratize access to leadership development and career development, because it usually, and it has been, you know, only a certain few, or if you have the means, if you kind of can do all the degrees, or if your company sponsors you to participate in a career development program.
angela_r_howard (33:28.21)
Yes.
angela_r_howard (33:41.824)
Mm.
jenny_vazquez_newsum (33:56.475)
There's all these factors that really limit access to these resources. And so we really work to make this very accessible for folks to just hop in and really engage in these valuable career development, leadership development opportunities that we don't get enough. And so we're doing it ourselves, we're contributing to each other.
angela_r_howard (34:00.625)
Mm.
angela_r_howard (34:24.742)
Yeah, well, Jenny, I am just so excited about the work that you're doing. The world needs it. We're building tables, you know, for folks to sit at and contribute. And I think the ripple effect of this is just going to be profound. So if you're listening, we will include information on how to find Jenny, how to join the untapped leaders community, how to support and help this movement. And I'm just so grateful to have you on the show.
jenny_vazquez_newsum (34:53.254)
I'm so grateful for you, Angela. Thank you for the work that you do as well.
angela_r_howard (34:57.386)
Thank you. Thanks Jenny.
