Creating Purpose Driven Employees with Brandon Peele

angela_r_howard (00:01.349)

Brandon, welcome to the podcast. Thank you for joining me.

brandon_peele (00:04.79)

Thank you, Angela. Great to be here with you.

angela_r_howard (00:07.504)

Yes, yes, I'm so excited. We were just talking before we clicked to record. I got turned on to your work by reading a Forbes article where you were talking all about purpose. And I think what really struck me in that conversation is kind of that connection to the workplace and to organizations, people who have platforms, right? Whether that's a workplace, whether that's a community or a movement. So tell us a little bit more about you.

what you do, what your work is, and what's the impact you're looking to make on the world.

brandon_peele (00:41.306)

Yeah, well, like you, midwesterner, grew up in Illinois. And there wasn't, at least in the 80s, 90s, any purpose conversation happening, at least not around me. It was just go to work, or well, first, you know, go to college, marry your college sweetheart, move her out to the

angela_r_howard (00:45.013)

I'm gonna go.

angela_r_howard (00:56.107)

Mm.

brandon_peele (01:10.558)

And then die on a golf course. And that was kind of it. And if that wasn't enough for you, you've had the Chicago Bears or the Catholic Church to turn to. But for me, I was like, there's gotta be more than this. Like, it's not bad, but where's the aliveness? Why isn't anyone up to anything? So that.

angela_r_howard (01:15.576)

I have this image in my head of just dying on the golf course. Ha ha ha.

angela_r_howard (01:24.631)

Mm.

brandon_peele (01:38.358)

purpose question was there, but I didn't even have words to it until my late 20s when I began to pull the threads. And over the next, say, seven years, discovered the whole body of purpose work and experienced it myself as a participant, got trained and certified in it. And I mean, I regard it as a civil right. Without this awareness, without understanding who we really are, we're at the effect of

angela_r_howard (02:00.927)

Mm.

brandon_peele (02:09.63)

just society, family issues, in some cases, childhood trauma. We're literally not ourselves. We're at the effect of these issues. And when we get, at least when I get connected to it, I get to be actually be myself. And that's what the United States of America is about, being fully self-expressed and have the rights to ensure that occurs. So that's what I've been doing for the last decade is writing books and talking about it and leading programs and trying to get more people to get.

train and certified it and bring it to their companies and schools and churches and just

angela_r_howard (02:43.52)

All the things, all the things. Well, no, I mean, I think you're, I mean, it's always been the time for this work, but before I get into my question, sorry, I did not hear your, well, maybe this is the impact you're looking to make on the world, but any other thoughts about that impact?

brandon_peele (02:44.674)

Carnival barking for purpose basically.

brandon_peele (03:04.402)

Well, I mean, if we had a base layer of purpose, 98% of our problems would go away. Because when we get enchanted with who we really are, you know, what our life is about, we inherently recognize the dignity of other people. And they also have that, especially if they're already awake. So it's...

angela_r_howard (03:12.333)

Hmm.

brandon_peele (03:31.91)

a lot of the deep divisions, a lot of the things that are keeping, you know, known best practices and policies from getting implemented in the United States and other places, basically boils down to we don't know each other and we don't trust the other ones. I should say we don't know ourselves and we don't trust anyone else. And so if we can, yeah, right, right. Yeah, there's a lot of righteousness, but that righteousness is a defense mechanism like not actually knowing who we are.

angela_r_howard (03:50.076)

Or we think we're right all the time, right?

brandon_peele (04:01.758)

and being deeply wounded and unhealed. Because a person who has done some purpose work is a lot more comfortable in ambiguity and it doesn't get solidified so much into righteousness.

angela_r_howard (04:02.52)

Interesting.

angela_r_howard (04:15.447)

Hmm.

angela_r_howard (04:21.576)

Yeah, I mean, the work that you're doing is so needed on so many fronts. And, you know, I kind of work in the sphere of the workplace, but, you know, we were just talking earlier about the ripple effects of businesses. And I kind of, you know, what you what came to mind was I recently went on a trip to Europe. I mean, Europe, Italy, the region I was in has its own issues.

But one of the things I asked, I was just very curious, I asked everybody I came in contact with, like people at the bar, or at a restaurant or a beach, what do you think about when you think about the US? Do you wanna hear my answers? Okay, so here were the answers that I got. And I'm just, this was totally unplanned by the way, which is why I'm struggling to find it, but we're going to find it.

brandon_peele (05:02.038)

Yes.

brandon_peele (05:14.242)

Perfect.

angela_r_howard (05:17.42)

Oh my goodness. Yeah, so I came in contact with people who were from Italy, who were from other countries like Romania and just all over the world, really. And here are some of the things that they said. The one that struck me the most was a country without a culture.

brandon_peele (05:50.338)

Hahaha.

angela_r_howard (05:50.848)

Let's see what we... they mentioned cowboys, hamburgers, a lot of surface-level stuff. I mean like things that you know kind of just or another interesting one was you know they basically said surface level right? Like everyone in the US is kind of surface level and artificial but that one piece, that one piece, a culture, a country without a culture.

brandon_peele (06:07.338)

Mm.

brandon_peele (06:15.627)

that one piece, that one piece of culture is completely uncultured. And to me...

angela_r_howard (06:19.796)

And to me, that signifies that we have a purpose issue as a country. We have some individuals within this country who live within this country, I think who have been marginalized and maybe have been forced to think more about their purpose within this country, right? Which is a lot of people who are doing the purpose work, I think. But I don't know, what do you think about that? That this was so impromptu, I just, it came to mind as you were talking.

brandon_peele (06:26.058)

Yeah.

brandon_peele (06:37.87)

in this country, right? Because a lot of people were doing this. Mm-hmm. But I don't know, what do you think about that?

brandon_peele (06:49.214)

It's perfect. And I think that there's a lot of truth in that. What passes for culture are essentially coping mechanisms from generations of trauma. Now that being said, we've actually developed beautiful culture from this trauma. So jazz, blues.

brandon_peele (07:16.294)

And not that there's not something very sweet and pastoral about a county fair. I've been to many. There's a lot that I'm not down with, like monster truck rally and all that. But the crafts and the caring for the animals and the livestock. So there's stuff there. There actually is stuff here.

angela_r_howard (07:31.064)

I'm going to go ahead and close the video.

brandon_peele (07:44.65)

It's just what the main narrative around our culture, it's like wealth, beauty and fame. And it's as they said, we're a young, juvenile, surface level culture that cares about what we look like basically, as opposed to who we are.

angela_r_howard (08:04.212)

Well, that's a good point. It is, if you look at the United States compared to a Rome where I was at or in Athens, these are ancient cultures that had time to develop. And so when I think about the organization, there's maturity levels that we typically look at. And that helps us diagnose and define the culture of the organization, but also where it can go, where it can transform to. So what you bring up is a good point. It sounds like we're in early stages,

brandon_peele (08:19.83)

Mm-hmm.

brandon_peele (08:28.226)

Yeah.

angela_r_howard (08:34.748)

What pivotal point are we at right now? Because I kind of get the sense from our conversations, our limited conversations, that kind of this idea of the soul, the purpose of the nation is at risk right now. What's your gauge on that?

brandon_peele (08:49.834)

Yeah, and organizations basically are in the front line of this and I'll swing around back that in a second.

So as I understand it, having read through the documents, basically the sacred texts of our nation, in addition to like 1619 project, indigenous people's history, people's history, that we're a very unique nation, like one of two nations that are covenantal, meaning like not from an existing culture or ethnicity or religion.

angela_r_howard (09:05.578)

Mm.

angela_r_howard (09:16.963)

Mmm.

angela_r_howard (09:25.804)

Hmm, yeah.

brandon_peele (09:28.93)

But like we said, actually we're about these ideas. And if you're down with that, you're gonna do great here. If you're not down with that, keep moving. Like, and it's basically, you know, the, as Lincoln said, the central tenant of our ancient faith is all created equal. Kennedy said the same thing. This is the thing, if you're not down with that, everything you're gonna experience here is gonna piss you off, because everything that we're trying to get done here is that.

angela_r_howard (09:39.073)

Mm.

brandon_peele (09:59.37)

And then our two animating aspirations of that are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness and institutions that ensure that. And then E Pluribus Unum, which on its surface is basically like from many one it's like, yay, you know, like a Benetton ad or by the world of Coke ad. But like the, the deeper spiritual philosophical source of that is from Cicero and Pythagoras and it's, um, Unum Fiat ex Pluribus.

angela_r_howard (10:17.13)

Gotcha.

brandon_peele (10:27.234)

which means we achieve unity when we love another as much as ourselves. So it's much closer to King's beloved community. Right. And so this is who we say we are. This is, this is what is at stake. And I don't know about you, but I haven't experienced any of those things ever in my entire life here in the United States. Like not, yeah. I mean, it's probably much more severe in your case, right?

angela_r_howard (10:52.544)

Same z's. Yeah.

brandon_peele (10:58.026)

Now, I've had moments like festivals in Oakland, you know, certain times at the YMCA, I'm like, yes, this is America. But for the most part, especially at a place like San Diego, in Chicago too, deeply segregated, you know, diverse, but I mean, what is diverse if you don't talk to one another? Like, it's not, it's not a thing. So

angela_r_howard (11:06.316)

Hmm.

angela_r_howard (11:19.958)

Mm-hmm.

brandon_peele (11:23.806)

We're at this place of like a deep lack of integrity with what it means to live in a multicultural liberal democracy and then what we actually experience, which is a racist classist apartheid. And so I think that's really what's happening right now is like a bunch of folks are stepping up and saying, I wanna protect this, I wanna live in that world. And a bunch of folks are saying, make America white again. And these are the people.

angela_r_howard (11:49.297)

Mm. Or the most... yeah.

brandon_peele (11:51.682)

who are sitting next to each other in their cubicles, who are investing in your company, who are buying your products. And so, yeah, there's a lot the businesses are experiencing around that.

angela_r_howard (11:54.697)

Mm.

angela_r_howard (12:02.008)

Well, yeah, I mean, what you're talking about are two different layers to this. I mean, you're talking about the system, right? I mean, if we think about the nation as a system and grounded in values, and I talk about culture within workplaces the same exact way. It's like, are our words matching our actions? That's how culture is, literally. And that's how culture manifests itself within a society. And culture is a culmination of

intent, but it's also a ground swell. It also happens organically. And so I think what you're saying is, if I were thinking about this from an organizational perspective, our culture is actually not what we say it is right now. And how do we in an intentional way make sure it becomes what it originally was founded on?

So how does one, from an organizational perspective or a nation's perspective, how does one do that? Like, how do we create this change?

brandon_peele (13:07.774)

Yeah. Well, I mean...

There's just the New York Times today, a great article about how close are we to a civil war. Right? So we didn't get the urgency of this. Right? And again, it's not going to be like it was in the 1860s. It's going to be sporadic, extremely violent, high casualty events, but without a battle line and without a coordinated thing. So

angela_r_howard (13:23.724)

Mm-hmm.

brandon_peele (13:43.078)

And what's also at risk is not just political violence, but actually democracy itself, right? So all of these anti-democratic political entrepreneurs, I'll just call them that, they're just exploiting hates and racist dog whistles to stay in power and all that.

they are destroying the democracy upon which capitalism depends. Because without it, every enterprise becomes a puppet of the demagogue in power. And that severely limits organizational autonomy, severely limits civil rights, especially for women, people of color from LGBTQIA plus communities. So, and

angela_r_howard (14:12.641)

Mm.

brandon_peele (14:32.41)

And also, generally half of our employees and customers now are living in a fear-based autocracy, like think like Gilead from Handmaid's Tale, right?

angela_r_howard (14:42.678)

Mm.

brandon_peele (14:46.038)

So that's what's at stake. I mean, we've already seen it. Margaret Atwood told us this is exactly what happens. Like a theocratic autocracy comes in and just lays waste to women. And most of the men too, for that matter. So it's all hands on deck across sectors. We all need to recognize what's happening. Now, unfortunately, the sectors that historically we might have turned to, like the government,

or education or religion or journalism, they've been on a multi-decade long slide, right? Trusting governments down from 77% to less than a quarter now. Whereas the private sector, I think it's something like 70% of us trust our employer, 94% of us trust our small businesses, which is where like half of us work. And that's where we spend our time, as you know, being like an organization geek. This is 2,000 hours of people's attention that you have.

angela_r_howard (15:21.153)

Mm.

angela_r_howard (15:33.08)

Mm-hmm.

brandon_peele (15:46.21)

when they're probably spending anywhere from 50 to 200 hours a year doing anything else. Like, if you're not going to impact beliefs and behaviors in organizations, we don't stand a chance. Like, we have to activate empathy, trust, inclusion, critical thinking skills, purpose, all these things here in order, because this is our sandbox, our fertile garden to develop.

angela_r_howard (16:01.9)

Mm.

brandon_peele (16:14.806)

these very humanistic qualities so that we come back home to our partner and our families and our communities and you know we're not on some kind of racist hyperbole rant, we're actually just being ourselves.

angela_r_howard (16:25.467)

Mm.

Yeah, and you bring up something that I don't know if you are familiar with the Edelman Trust Barometer, and maybe that's where you got your stats, but I am a huge, like I track that thing because I know just recently, like this past year, that, or the past few years, that shift happened. Probably during COVID, right, because there were so many different sources of information and people were confused.

brandon_peele (16:34.03)

Mm-hmm.

angela_r_howard (16:54.752)

During COVID, I was working within industry as a CHRO, who had to be that person who was the source of truth. And I will say it was very exhausting. So how do we, like, how do we start to build sustainability with that responsibility? Because you don't learn that in business school. You don't learn that in a higher education. You don't...

You don't start a business and know how to have that type of responsibility. I know it's a mindset, but how you do it, how you actually play it out. I mean, do you have any ideas? Can we, can we change the world in this podcast? I don't know. I know I'm asking some tough questions.

brandon_peele (17:40.491)

Yeah, no, I mean, I don't have all the answers, of course, but.

brandon_peele (17:52.33)

So, let me just share some stuff from personal experience. Like I said, I grew up without purpose. And I tried to put everything I possibly could into that purpose-sized hole in my heart. I tried to put in, you know, desire to be successful, drugs, random sexual encounters, travel, just like fill this hole in my heart. And oftentimes what can get in there,

angela_r_howard (18:10.124)

Hmm.

brandon_peele (18:20.618)

especially if you're a consumer of a lot of this irresponsible media, are conspiracy theories, like doubt and science, anti-intellectual behaviors and attitudes. And especially if that's all you're surrounded by, that's essentially what you are feeling. And because it's not inherently nourishing, you have to keep consuming it. It's like a hungry ghost. Now, when we activate purpose,

it's reversing the flow. So instead of like going out for chemicals and conspiracy theories and outrage porn and all this kind of stuff, it's actually about kind of giving who we are. And in a sense, and research shows this, you can check it out at sciencepurpose.org, like just about every pro-social attribute that what we would define as like part of a whole human adult is correlated with a sense of purpose.

angela_r_howard (19:17.152)

Hmm.

brandon_peele (19:17.706)

similarly with positive outcomes in health and career and relationships. So if we can activate purpose at scale, which is the question I've been in for the last three years, like we should do it because it's essentially an effective defense against a, uh, antisocial behaviors, but for like nonsensical identities and, you know, extremist groups becoming this thing that we have to keep ingesting.

in order to like have any sense of coherence with the world, whereas like purpose comes online, let's just know who we are in relationship to the world and what's ours to do about it.

angela_r_howard (19:47.308)

Hmm.

angela_r_howard (19:57.748)

Yeah. And from an organizational perspective, you know, I mean, just some things I can think about, you know, I'm a business owner, right? I'm a new business owner. So, you know, I'm starting to think even I don't have any employees, but I'm starting to think now, like, what is the purpose of this organization? What impact is it going to make on the world? And how do I translate that into hiring people who are going to contribute to that purpose?

and feel good about it. Because that's the other thing is when you have purpose, you can also be a lot more narrow around and clear about what you're trying to achieve. And you can give people the choice, the option, the clearer you are without giving them a choice. So I think that is one way that we can.

brandon_peele (20:38.785)

Okay.

angela_r_howard (20:48.2)

you know, we can solve this, right? Is, you know, for those of you who are listening and who are business owners, founders, entrepreneurs, anyone who has a platform where you're impacting other human beings, you have an opportunity, I think, to understand what your purpose is as an organization, as a founder, then as an organization, and then that ripple effect and what that actually looks like, what that is operationalized like into your decision-making, your process.

even procedures, like it has to like, the heartbeat has to live and breathe and everything. And that's kind of, you know, I'm working on writing a book. I know you've already written a book, so we'll have to talk about that later. But I'm working on, so it's a book about how businesses can be a catalyst for social change. And it's based on this premise of the ripple effect, where at the middle is you, right, business owner.

brandon_peele (21:22.386)

Absolutely.

brandon_peele (21:29.078)

Nice.

brandon_peele (21:39.977)

Nice.

angela_r_howard (21:46.868)

and getting really clear about that and then rippling that out. And so I think that is the goal. And I know that sounds it's a big meta task, but it's almost it has to constantly be a part of the way you build your business and strategy, because to your point, we have a platform and we have to use it. So.

brandon_peele (22:02.978)

Mm-hmm.

brandon_peele (22:07.666)

You got to talk to my wife. She is like, business is to change the world needs. This is how it's done. It ripples out like. It's like. Like.

angela_r_howard (22:15.447)

Yes! Oh, I love it. I would love to talk to her. That would be awesome.

brandon_peele (22:19.718)

Yeah. So one quick thing I just want to add to this, because I think this is where a lot of folks are at, at least here on the West Coast. I don't know about Chicago. By the way, can you hear that plumbing next door?

angela_r_howard (22:30.168)

Mm-hmm. Yes, it's okay. We just have a little background noise. It's all good. So it's serenading us. It's okay.

brandon_peele (22:37.87)

I'm so sorry. I had no idea. I thought they were done this morning and they're just like, they're taken to like level 10 now. So, where a lot of folks have done some kind of organizational purpose work. Nine times out of 10, it's just a bunch of MBAs in a room saying, you know, it's basically a SWAT. Yeah, what the SWAT analysis, you know, customer excellence going the extra mile. Okay, done.

angela_r_howard (22:44.372)

That's okay.

angela_r_howard (22:57.816)

Mm. What are the words? Yeah.

brandon_peele (23:06.23)

Who's got cocktails? You know, it's just. Now, there are beautiful, as you know, like beautiful visions that are deeply humanistic. Like they're out to impact something you can point to on the UN Sustainable Development Goals or like point to on Maslow's New Territory. And they've got values that are actually like they resonate with our wisdom and contemplative traditions. They're like, it's about care. It's about curiosity. It's about.

angela_r_howard (23:07.866)

Hahaha

angela_r_howard (23:21.822)

Mm.

brandon_peele (23:36.258)

whatever, as opposed to like going the extra mile, you know, just, I know it's ridiculous. So even folks who have these, like, you know, really heartfelt purpose, uh, you know, mission, vision values, it's still not going to resonate with employees, which as you know, the number one stakeholder in every organization until they themselves have discovered who they really are.

angela_r_howard (23:40.524)

What does that even mean?

angela_r_howard (24:05.164)

Mm-hmm.

brandon_peele (24:05.95)

That is the only thing that allows them to genuinely connect with larger forms of meaning, such as the organization's mission and values or the purpose of our nation and all that kind of stuff. So we have to basically build this bridge between the enlightened business leader and then the purpose-activated employee. And that's how an organization becomes fully embodied in their purpose. Because everyone's got their unique connection to...

division of values and they need the opportunity to discover that.

angela_r_howard (24:38.036)

Yeah, yeah, that's a great point because a lot of times these exercises can be top down. And it's like the executives are in the room defining the purpose and so like enrollment, I think in the process is really important. And again, also, I can't like underline this enough, but like the transparency with your the transparency and the kind of crowd sourcing part of that process and allowing people to opt out. I know this is like a very uncomfortable

for organizations because loyalty is so baked into our traditional kind of industrial revolution based model of work. And it's like, I'm the employee, you're the worker. So you have to be aligned to my purpose. And that's it to your point, kind of how we developed some of those principles early on where in reality it should be a partnership. You're coming to work for me and contribute to my purpose. And hopefully this experience is contributing to your purpose.

and that is the ultimate marriage. But, you know, I don't, do you think purpose changes?

brandon_peele (25:47.614)

Yes, purpose changes. I'm sorry, these guys are going nuts next door. Yeah, it does change. There are aspects that are kind of immutable, like our core essence and our virtues. But our expression, especially as the world changes, the expression of our purpose will shift. It doesn't mean one day you're in sales, and the next day you're digging ditches. It's actually that.

angela_r_howard (25:51.332)

It's okay.

angela_r_howard (26:15.553)

Hmm.

brandon_peele (26:17.946)

you're seeing a deeper expression of who you are, and you need to express that. You might think of like how an actor goes from actor to director to producer to maybe writer, writer producer, that kind of thing.

angela_r_howard (26:21.875)

Mmm.

angela_r_howard (26:27.956)

Yes.

angela_r_howard (26:33.788)

Mm, I love that. Yeah, the expression of your purpose, ebbs and flows, with how you learn more about yourself. And the same thing with an organization. I think I read somewhere where someone said, like, core values don't change. And I was just like, the thing that woke me up to this was like, we've just been through a pandemic. Our democracy is under attack. Our economy is struggling. Like, all, like, these things have to,

brandon_peele (26:38.732)

Yeah.

angela_r_howard (27:02.828)

to change perspective. And I think the other thing I would just mention to listeners is if you do have core values, first of all, if you don't have behaviors aligned to those core values, get them. And they can change over time because your organization will change over time too. And evolve.

brandon_peele (27:22.838)

I totally agree. And we haven't talked much about the work that we do at UnityLab, but it's basically to hold space for that, is to empower people to discover who they are, bring that to work and talk about it with their peers. So all of our programs are designed for that because every day, every month, every year, that person is showing up newly, the world is showing up newly. And so we have to keep pulling those threads.

angela_r_howard (27:33.322)

Mmm.

brandon_peele (27:52.558)

Who are we in this moment? What is there to do now? And then unpacking our experience and having it integrated into our awareness and our relationships and our communication. I just wish we, there was, there were like 500 Unity Labs because I do have a lot of fear. I'm not gonna lie. Like, I don't know if the Republic's gonna.

if we're going to get there in time by November 2024. Like I want to. I want to make a bunch of noise. I want McKinsey and EY and everybody to steal our work and go take it. But I have fear. I have a lot of fear around that. Yeah.

angela_r_howard (28:32.517)

Mm.

angela_r_howard (28:40.596)

Well, thank you for sharing that, because I think a lot of people are probably listening to this and share similar fears. So I think being open and vulnerable about that is important. And it's also part of this healing journey that we're trying to go on. And I might be a little bit more optimistic than you are. I feel like I feel like there's movement around this. I feel like I'm also fearful. I'm not going to lie.

brandon_peele (29:00.01)

Thank you, buddy.

brandon_peele (29:07.159)

Yeah.

angela_r_howard (29:08.592)

And I also, I'm sensing a strong focus on accountability, especially for this new generation that is coming into the workplace, like Gen Zers, right? Who are starting to contribute to society and are influencing just all sectors. So by 2024, I don't know, but I understand where your fear is coming from. I totally, I totally get it.

brandon_peele (29:18.838)

Mm-hmm.

brandon_peele (29:26.602)

Mm-hmm.

brandon_peele (29:39.422)

And that's one of the reasons that last year I started writing my book. I'm like, we need to get this out so that it's not relying on my company to do it all. So I really hope you folks can check out Purpose Work Nation. You can listen to it, watch it for free because I mean, some of the results.

like, I'm not trying to get rich out of it. I literally just want to fix this nation. So like the results are like 98 percent of folks experience respect from their diverse peers. Ninety six percent experience empathy. Ninety four percent feel comfortable sharing their fears and anxiety. And that's just from what they what they say about it. But when people actually bring their purpose to work, it's seven and a half months longer tenure, one hundred seventy five percent more productive.

angela_r_howard (30:28.151)

Mmm.

brandon_peele (30:36.03)

nine and a half fewer days off, like, folks show up as their full self, you know, they're bringing their wild ideas, their dissenting opinions. And so if you want that for them, if you want an organization like, please do this, like, steal this, take it, run with it, make it your own, like, just hurry up, just hurry up, because I am committed to living in a democracy where women can be safe on the street, and we need to do this, like, yesterday. So please.

angela_r_howard (30:57.292)

Yes, just do it today, just do it today.

angela_r_howard (31:05.164)

Yes, well I appreciate your speed as to which you're kind of putting into perspective the priority around this. So tell us where people can find you. I know you talked about the book. Tell people where they can find you and work with you or access these resources to get started.

brandon_peele (31:28.898)

Sure, best place probably to go is just brandonpeel.com, B-R-A-N-D-O-N-P-E-E-L-E. And there's, you can find links to UnityLab, which is our organization work, books, all that good stuff. Of course, LinkedIn is fine too.

angela_r_howard (31:45.432)

Love it, love it. Well, Brandon, I loved this conversation. You are just so purpose-driven and so passionate about this work. And it just makes, it makes those other people who are doing the work feel like they have their people, you know? And I think community for us is also very important for our healing, because we're working on the hard shit. And it's hard, it's really hard sometimes to be in this alone or feel like,

brandon_peele (31:49.294)

Shhh

brandon_peele (32:02.552)

Hmm.

brandon_peele (32:08.91)

So yeah.

brandon_peele (32:13.89)

Yeah.

angela_r_howard (32:14.524)

you know, you don't have a community. So if you are also listening and maybe you are a change agent or a changemaker or have a purpose driven movement that you're trying to move forward, Branded would also be a great person to reach out to, to help move it around. Or. Yeah. Plus times two, that's just like all the all the little infant human beings, we have to start help, you know, getting them there too.

brandon_peele (32:29.131)

Yeah, amen. I'm with you. It's gonna, it literally has to take all of us. Like, thank you. It's just. Yeah, time's up. Oh, I was gonna, please thank you, but I'm not gonna give you numbers. You know what? I'm gonna write. Go ahead.

angela_r_howard (32:44.976)

I was talking to my, oh go ahead. I was talking to my husband, I was, because we don't have kids yet, but we want to have kids and a family one day. But I'm just like, I'm gonna be talking, if I'm ever pregnant, I'm gonna be talking to my belly about this stuff because we just, we don't have any time to your point. We don't have any time.

brandon_peele (32:59.574)

Ha ha ha!

brandon_peele (33:04.39)

Yeah, I know it's, it's good time. Um, you know, what I was going to share is like, you know, how, when a country, like say Ukraine is getting invaded and they make all these international appeals. Like, I kind of feel like we need to make an international appeal. Like, Hey everybody, we literally can't fix this ourselves. Come on in. We need your experts. We need like, just like, help us solve the white supremacy thing.

angela_r_howard (33:17.003)

Yeah.

brandon_peele (33:34.198)

poverty. It's like, I don't know what it's going to take. Like, because we know what to do, we just can't get it done. And it's like, it's crazy. So we do need a ministry of culture, like an actual like, here's how we make e-pluribus unum, life for the life for the pursuit of happiness.

angela_r_howard (33:35.062)

Mm-hmm.

angela_r_howard (33:43.728)

Joe Biden hire us. We want to help.

angela_r_howard (33:53.752)

Yes. I mean, I think about that all the time. I'm always watching the news and I'm just like, culture issue, culture issue, that leader's toxic. Like, I just, like just hire me. I will whip it into shape. Like I know the formula. I'll fix it, I'll fix it. But there's also systemic things that are just like, like protected and there's, it's not that easy. So, well, go ahead.

brandon_peele (34:02.358)

Bing bing bing! Hehehehe, yeah. I'll fix it! Hehehehe.

brandon_peele (34:19.71)

Yeah. So Angela, I do need to run. I have to go meet one of my advisors, but this was a lot of fun and you got it.

angela_r_howard (34:23.788)

Yes. Thank you so much. It was great. And thank you so much for being on the podcast, Brandon.

brandon_peele (34:29.407)

You got it. Okay.